2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 160 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

     

    Looks like it'll be CIM, assuming there won't be restrictions signing up for that.

     

    See the source image

     

     

    California just ended it's "stay at home" order and Sacramento is far enough from the Bay Area they can kind of do their own thing. Downside is it's the Capitol so Governor Newsome might actually show up there occasionally, and he could just start one this summer because he wants to. I don't expect CIM to be canceled due to COVID 19 in 2021, and that's mostly because the stay at home order the Governor issued through last week wasn't really followed by the residents. Plus I want to run it again.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    JMac11


    Taper Czar

       

      JMac, there are so many fall marathons; why limit yourself to NYC and CIM?

       

      I guess my criteria, although simple, rules out a lot of marathons. I'm open to ideas if people have alternatives. NYC is a bit special because I can sleep in my own bed:

       

      1) Average race day temperature in the 40s or 50s

      2) Field size large enough that I feel confident there will be a good group of people to run with around 2:35 pace

       

      What other marathons fit those criteria? CIM is so magical because I know I'm guaranteed to have groups to run with throughout the entire race. For my 2:36, the only time I was alone was during the last 3 miles, and that's probably true with almost any marathon as groups break apart.

       

      ETA: did a quick search, and there really aren't many. NJ is too warm. Indy may fit, but if I'm going to have to fly anyway, why not CIM?

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        Indy Monumental in November.

         

        New Jersey (normally April) is scheduled for October this year.

         

        (no idea on the 2:3x crowd for NJ; Indy should have a solid collection)

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

           

          I guess my criteria, although simple, rules out a lot of marathons. I'm open to ideas if people have alternatives. NYC is a bit special because I can sleep in my own bed:

           

          1) Average race day temperature in the 40s or 50s

          2) Field size large enough that I feel confident there will be a good group of people to run with around 2:35 pace

           

          What other marathons fit those criteria? CIM is so magical because I know I'm guaranteed to have groups to run with throughout the entire race. For my 2:36, the only time I was alone was during the last 3 miles, and that's probably true with almost any marathon as groups break apart.

           

          ETA: did a quick search, and there really aren't many. NJ is too warm. Indy may fit, but if I'm going to have to fly anyway, why not CIM?

           

          Ok, I can understand wanting a decent pack running your pace. Hartford is Oct. 9th; it's not huge (just under 2000 do the marathon usually) but would have some people in your pace range. Also not too far from you, and best of all, you could meet me in person 

          2:52:16 (2018)

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            Jmac is flying into Indy any easier than flying into/out of Sacramento? California can get some random weather in winter and I’m sure anywhere you go you’ll have good crowds. What about LA or Houston? Route 66 in Tulsa? Might know a guy who could tell you about the weather there.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              Jmac is flying into Indy any easier than flying into/out of Sacramento? California can get some random weather in winter and I’m sure anywhere you go you’ll have good crowds. What about LA or Houston? Route 66 in Tulsa? Might know a guy who could tell you about the weather there.

               

              Building on this - IMHO not all domestic air travel is the same.  Indy, Columbus, Detroit, Boston, Hartford - for me those are all in that 60-90 minute flight range with tons of direct flights to choose from.  Not much time to get dehydrated or stiff on the flight; if your flight is cancelled you have other direct options; and you don't have much if any of a time change to deal with.

               

              East coast to west coast, OTOH - you have less flights to choose from, especially if you prefer a direct flight (and yes, like Jmac, I have my choice of 3 major local airports to fly from).   You're sitting on the plane for a few hours.  And you've got a few hours time difference to adjust to (though it works in favor of east coasters flying west for a morning marathon).

               

              I'll also comment that I think loop course marathons will be returning before point to point ones, since busing people to the start is a real Covid challenge.

               

              Edit: for the heck of it, I checked on Google travel - right now there are NO direct flights from either DC or NYC to Sacramento....

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                I e-mailed the race director for the Cheap marathon (normally a loop course in Salisbury MA) about likelihood the race will take place and got the below detailed response:

                 

                Thank you for your inquiry about the Cheap Marathon/Half Marathon!

                 

                As a leader in the running industry and largest operator of events in NH, we were honored to be asked by NH Governor Sununu’s Task Force to develop procedures to safely produce endurance events in the Granite State.   I’m proud to say that our recommendations and procedures have helped shape the guidelines that are now published on the State’s COVID website.   As such, Millennium produced over 40 events in the last half of 2020 and we are moving ahead with our Signature Events as scheduled in 2021

                 

                Unfortunately, the State of Massachusetts has very different guidance for road races and we have little confidence that we can produce the event in MA.    Instead, we will be relocating the event to southern NH to the Town of Derry and Town of Windham on their Windham/Derry Rail Trail on the same date.  Rest assured, it will still be a flat and fast, certified course!   

                 

                We will be updating the website with the latest and greatest information in the coming week.  Stay tuned…But don’t wait to sign up as the field size will be limited and will sell out soon.

                 

                So looks like it will go ahead but be on a different course in NH. Still about the same driving distance for me and I'm glad to hear it will still be flat, though I'll feel better once I see the course map. Looking online at the rail trails in Windham and Derry they look really nice (paved and flat).

                 

                Anyway, it's great to see efforts like this being made to put on races.

                2:52:16 (2018)

                JMac11


                Taper Czar

                  It's certainly challenging to fly to Sacramento. I flew into SF last time and made the drive.

                   

                  I will say though the point about time differences is one thing I loved about CIM. The race didn't start until 10 am Eastern, so it was very easy to get a good amount of sleep each night. I slept 10 hours the two nights prior to the race.

                   

                  For the length of flight: it didn't bother me too much. I sleep very well on planes and am used to 12-14 hour flights to Asia. So I view it in 3 categories: sleep in my own bed the night before, driveable the day before, or have to fly. If Boston was in November I would have done that. But given the choice between Indy and CIM, it's hard for me to see the merit of Indy at the moment given I've only run CIM once before. Plus this time I can take the family and do a CA trip afterward.

                  5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                     

                    For the length of flight: it didn't bother me too much. I sleep very well on planes and am used to 12-14 hour flights to Asia. So I view it in 3 categories: sleep in my own bed the night before, driveable the day before, or have to fly. If Boston was in November I would have done that. But given the choice between Indy and CIM, it's hard for me to see the merit of Indy at the moment given I've only run CIM once before. Plus this time I can take the family and do a CA trip afterward.

                     

                    Ah.  I categorize by net travel time.  In that sense, Indy, Boston, NYC, Pittsburgh, and Virginia Beach are all about the same - 3:30-4 hours travel time from the front door of my house to either bib pick-up or hotel check in.  The only difference is how much of that time is spent on a plane, train, or car.

                     

                    (by that measure - Grandma's Marathon is slightly "further" from me than a direct flight to CIM, even though the physical distance is significantly closer.)

                     

                    Of course, in current times driving does have more appeal.

                     

                    Jmac - that is good news.  I think any indication that a race director is giving serious thought as to how to pull off the race is a good thing.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    dpschumacher


                    Making a comeback

                      If grandma's happens. I'll be there. My run club has about 15 of us running and I'll be the slowest by quite a bit. The young boys (under 30) are getting ready to hammer.

                       

                       

                      Ah.  I categorize by net travel time.  In that sense, Indy, Boston, NYC, Pittsburgh, and Virginia Beach are all about the same - 3:30-4 hours travel time from the front door of my house to either bib pick-up or hotel check in.  The only difference is how much of that time is spent on a plane, train, or car.

                       

                      (by that measure - Grandma's Marathon is slightly "further" from me than a direct flight to CIM, even though the physical distance is significantly closer.)

                       

                      Of course, in current times driving does have more appeal.

                       

                      Jmac - that is good news.  I think any indication that a race director is giving serious thought as to how to pull off the race is a good thing.

                       

                      New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                      USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                       

                      2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                      Marathon Sub 2:40

                      10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                      5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                      JMac11


                      Taper Czar

                        I wish they ran Grandma's in May. It's a great course. They still wouldn't have much competition in terms of other big marathons, yet better weather.  It fails the temperature test for me. You really have to get lucky to get a great day.

                         

                        This is a broader issue with marathoning. The races are catered more towards the average runner, who doesn't want to run races in the 40s. I totally understand it, I would do the same as a RD. But it's tough for those of us shooting for potentially lifetime PRs. I don't know that I have a lot of room left under my 2:36 and I don't want to chance a bad weather day more than I have to. That exists in every race, but rather give myself the best shot with a good crowd than just race a course I've never done for the sake of it.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                        dpschumacher


                        Making a comeback

                          The temps are generally very good in qt race time. If you are running sub 3 you rarely hit weather issues.  Usually not into mid 60s until noon. With Lake superior the weather is still usually cool.

                           

                          I wish they ran Grandma's in May. It's a great course. They still wouldn't have much competition in terms of other big marathons, yet better weather.  It fails the temperature test for me. You really have to get lucky to get a great day.

                           

                          This is a broader issue with marathoning. The races are catered more towards the average runner, who doesn't want to run races in the 40s. I totally understand it, I would do the same as a RD. But it's tough for those of us shooting for potentially lifetime PRs. I don't know that I have a lot of room left under my 2:36 and I don't want to chance a bad weather day more than I have to. That exists in every race, but rather give myself the best shot with a good crowd than just race a course I've never done for the sake of it.

                           

                          New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                          USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                           

                          2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                          Marathon Sub 2:40

                          10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                          5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            The temps are generally very good in qt race time. If you are running sub 3 you rarely hit weather issues.  Usually not into mid 60s until noon. With Lake superior the weather is still usually cool.

                             

                             

                            I think it's had bad luck a few recent years, which contributes to the impression that it can be hot.  I've run it from 2015-2019, and 2016 and 2017 were both rough years heat-wise.  It is a weather risk, in the same Chicago can be.    But, as DPS points out, the fact that it's run along Lake Superior means that the race is basically in a micro climate that is a few degrees cooler in the summer than the surrounding area.

                             

                            (about 10-15 years ago, CIM had just legendarily bad weather - torrential rain, flooding, and a headwind.  For sometime after, I knew a few people who wouldn't register because it was a weather risk)

                             

                            As for which races are best for sub-elite runners wanting to PR (for guys I'm thinking 2:25-2:40 range), I think there are quite a few races that are good choices for that crowd, besides CIM.  Houston, Grandma's, Columbus, Indy Monumental, Richmond, Philadelphia are just a few that come to mind.   All of which have pretty good odds of good weather.

                             

                            Yes, there are huge races that cater to the completers, plus possibly the true elites.  And there are also smaller races where pretty much anyone sub-3 is an island.  But there are plenty of options for the 2:25-2:40 crowd - it's not just CIM, Chicago, or bust.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                              My week:

                               

                              28 miles, 500 yards swimming, and 3:30 hours of pool-running


                              M: 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                              T: 10 miles easy on treadmill (9:00) and upperbody weights/core.
                              W: 12 miles including a road workout of 3x2 miles in 13:17 (6:35/6:42); 13:16 (6:42/6:34); 13:12 (6:40/6:32) with 5 minutes jog between each. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                              Th: 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                              F: 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                              Sa: 1 hour pool-running and upper body weights/core.
                              Su: 6 miles very easy on treadmill (9:08) and streaming yoga.

                               

                              About halfway through the week, I decided to take a break and stop my marathon training cycle. My goal marathon - Myrtle Beach - was postponed to May 1. And over the last 2 weeks I just haven't been responding to my training the way I would like. Sometimes you feel your body absorbing and responding to the training; at other times you feel like Teflon - the work just slides off of you. I've been feeling like the latter, so it was time to reboot.

                               

                              So I took a few days of pool-running and junk food eating to reset. Now I'm easing back into running, and shifting to some hills and tempo work, which I'll do for a bit before shifting to a short cycle for Athens.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                                DW: I modified the table so you are down for Athens now. If it happens I may be there as well; a lot depends on how the new course for Cheap looks. Good idea to back off and reset.

                                 

                                My week had 3 out of 6 days on the treadmill. Not worried about that; this is usually what happens during this part of winter. We had super cold and windy conditions the last few days with windchills in the -20 deg F range. My mid-week workout will likely remain on the mill through Feb and some of the recovery runs as well if it is super cold or icy. I had another nice hilly long run in frigid but at least not windy conditions this morning.

                                 

                                Weekly for period: From: 01/25/2021 To 01/31/2021

                                Date Name Distance
                                in mi
                                Duration Avg Pace
                                per mi
                                Elevation Gain
                                in ft
                                01/26/2021 Morning Run 10.21 1:25:58 8:25 564
                                01/27/2021 Morning Run w/ 3 x 2 mi 12.02 1:26:59 7:14 0
                                01/28/2021 Morning Run 6.25 55:12 8:50 394
                                01/29/2021 Morning Run 10.02 1:20:50 8:04 0
                                01/30/2021 Morning Run 8.03 1:07:15 8:22 0
                                01/31/2021 Long run 18.09 2:19:30 7:43 1299

                                Total distance: 64.61 mi

                                2:52:16 (2018)