Forums >General Running>How hard do you push yourself in races and how do you know what your limits are?
I am a moderately committed 41 year old female runner (i.e. I run about 4 times a week and I typically put in 25-30 kms per week) I have run three half marathons in my life. One 4 years ago at a time of just under 2:04. Then I got sick with lung disease, then into remission and ran two half-marathons last year. First one I ran in 1:59, second at 1:54. I want to step it up and become more committed now that I am feeling 100% healthy. I really want to get my hm time just below 1:50. I realize this means more mileage and training. But aside from increasing mileage, I do wonder about whether I am actually pushing myself to my full potential in my races...I don't tend to run much faster than my training runs during races (which I tend to run at a comfortable pace that would pass the 'talk test')...and each hm that I have completed, I don't feel exhausted, sore, totally spent (other than perhaps my first one, when I was probably sick with lung issues). Last year during my two HM's I definitely felt like I had gas left in the tank. I just finished reading one person's post on this forum where she described running one hm with dry heaves, and another one where she was feeling good thoughout, but then threw up in the last mile. This tells me she pushed herself significantly. I have never pushed myself to this level of discomfort. I am always wondering how others around me are feeling at races - are they pushing themselves harder to the point of discomfort throughout the race? How hard do typical racers push themselves? I think I have a fear of pushing myself too much and loosing steam at the end but I also think that this fear may be stopping me from reaching my race goals.
Chief Unicorn Officer
I jokingly used to tell the kids I coached, “if you don’t puke, you could’ve tried harder.”
I race mostly shorter races, so during a mile, 5K, or even 10K, I’m almost always toeing the line of throwing up. Or to the point where my legs might go completely dead if I go any faster. Not soreness, like they might actually get so heavy and dead I can barely finish (it’s actually only happened to me once but I can tell when I’m getting closer to that point).
The half marathons I’ve run, and 15K-ish and up...I don’t get real puked but I also feel like I can’t take a single step further at the end.
You cant be afraid to fail if you want to test your limits.
Mile 5:49 - 5K 19:58 - 10K 43:06 - HM 1:36:54
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Check out the runner's faces in this thread...What is Your Finish Face Look Like, you'll see everything from cruisin' it in, to death-take-me-now.
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I have never felt like I had anything left in the tank at the end of a race. I always go out too fast. Sometimes I can hang on, sometimes I can't. Running your wheels off isn't that bad. FWIW, I'm not fast, but I've managed to get AG placement in a lot of races because I was willing to push my limits and the other women weren't.
Most runners think that to run a race well, they simply need to train. It's kind of like consumerism. You pay with your sweat and time and labor, thereby earning you a race performance commensurate with the training you've invested.
But more often than not, they find themselves after the race asking what went wrong, and perhaps feeling a little cheated.
What i've found that to run a decent race, and by that i mean a race to my fullest capactiy, you have to run a bunch of races. And of those, hopefully some will be of the over-exertion type. So, don't ever waste too much angst worrying about a bad performance, just take what you can from it and use it.
The trick then is to learn from them so that you learn where your limits are and how and when you can cozy up to that spot.
What has worked for me is not necessarily going to work for anyone else so i won't bore you with my tricks. But in all the attempts you make, and in all the hours you spend training, ask yourself what has worked and what has made you fail, and then learn how to cultivate the winning mindset and the exertion level that goes along with it.
Most runners think that to run a race well, they simply need to train. It's kind of like consumerism. You pay with your sweat and time and labor, thereby earning you a race performance commensurate with the training you've invested. But more often than not, they find themselves after the race asking what went wrong, and perhaps feeling a little cheated. What i've found that to run a decent race, and by that i mean a race to my fullest capactiy, you have to run a bunch of races. And of those, hopefully some will be of the over-exertion type. So, don't ever waste too much angst worrying about a bad performance, just take what you can from it and use it. The trick then is to learn from them so that you learn where your limits are and how and when you can cozy up to that spot. What has worked for me is not necessarily going to work for anyone else so i won't bore you with my tricks. But in all the attempts you make, and in all the hours you spend training, ask yourself what has worked and what has made you fail, and then learn how to cultivate the winning mindset and the exertion level that goes along with it.
very well said !!
Thx. In a former sport i was involved in, they used to throw around the expression "Train to race. Race to train." One day it finally came to me what they meant.
yeah... Run more; Race more.
be curious; not judgmental
Are we there, yet?
The "if you aren't puking, you haven't run as hard as you could" opinion is applicable to only a small subset of runners. It seems to be entirely a personal matter and some runners always feel that way, but many don't It's not a valid measure of race effort.
Sorry Ginny, going out too fast and trying to hang on may make you feel exhausted and depleted at the finish line, but a truer measure is how quickly you recover afterwards. Early oxygen debt or whatever they call it now keeps you from putting in a maximum effort while you're body is trying to recover from the too fast early pace. A good indication of this is a fairly quick post race recovery.
What it comes down to from my experience is just that, race experience. It may take a few times going out too fast to too slow before you get a feel for an optimum maximal effort. Unfortunately I've found that rarely carries over to divergent distances, so just because you race 5K well doesn't mean you'll race a HM well unless you have sufficient experience at both distances. I think this lends itself to why racing a marathon is so difficult even with the training. It can take several years of racing multiple marathons a year before you have the experience to really nail one.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Slower but happier
Could you argue you cannot by definition “know your limits” until you DNF? You can play around with it in training sure, but there is no substitute for racing when it gets down to it. I’m not saying get out there and do something stupid like trying to run a 1:30 when you are in 1:50 shape just so you can fail. I would do a couple shorter races in your training cycle like a 10k, see how you progress and then base your goal off of those and some half-Marathon pace workouts. I don’t think you have to destroy yourself to have a good race (though you might not reach your limit). I think there Is something to be said for a well planned and executed training cycle and race. There is also a lot of drama at races and you may just not be dramatic. I don’t know.
2020 goal: couch to 5K, currently working on the couch block
are they pushing themselves harder to the point of discomfort throughout the race? How hard do typical racers push themselves? I think I have a fear of pushing myself too much and loosing steam at the end but I also think that this fear may be stopping me from reaching my race goals.
I am always experiencing discomfort at the end of any race, some earlier than others. A 5K I’m uncomfortable probably a half mile in and feel like I’m going to lose my stomach if I go any faster. HMs I’m generally pretty uncomfortable by mile 7-8 and want to quit by mile 10 and really have to play mind games with myself to keep up the pace( my last HM I did dry heave at the finish, but I generally don’t). It is definitely a matter of figuring out what works for you in terms of how hard to go out. And you might lose steam at the end sometimes and that’s okay (my last 5K my last mile was about 40 seconds slower than my first mile. Oops)
SMART Approach
I am a moderately committed 41 year old female runner...... I want to step it up and become more committed now that I am feeling 100% healthy. I really want to get my hm time just below 1:50......I realize this means more mileage and training..... I think I have a fear of pushing myself too much and loosing steam at the end but I also think that this fear may be stopping me from reaching my race goals.
Cher, my recommendations to make you feel at ease as a miserable finish is not as fun and more likely to occur because of lack of fitness, too fast of start and improper pacing and all are related.
1. You are still on upswing and improving. Just increasing miles to 40-50K in training will likely get you close or at your 1:50 goal even with your current mindset as increased aerobic capacity will make a faster pace still feel comfortable for you.
2. In addition to running more miles, I will give you 3 subtle training techniques that will help you a lot physiologically and psychologically but not have you feeling stressed to follow an intense structured plan. Maybe you get to that next year or year after as you continue to progress.
A. Twice per week including your long run, do a faster finish. Start with running faster the last 1-2K. As your half gets closer work on running the last 5K of your long run faster. It does not need to be killer, just faster. Maybe last 800m you pick it up even more. This gets you conditioned to finish stronger in your halfs and overcome fear of dying at end.
B. One other day per week in middle of your run or last 1/4 of your run, do some 20-30 sec pick me ups/striders. This is a fast pace but not all out. Maintain and focus on your running form. Ease into and out of each strider. Start with 4 and work up to 8 reps or more with a minute or two jog between. Or just do them throughout one of your runs to break up monotony. Eg. Do 10 of them over a 10K training run.
C. Do a few 5K races. You will dig a bit more in a shorter race without fear of having a miserable long race experience. These 5Ks are a great training stimulus, get you race tough and also can tell you a lot about your fitness level and be a predictor for half performance.
3. Also, as mentioned, just with more races including halfs, you get race tough, more experienced and more confident in pacing which also mean improved performance.
You are doing things the right way. Keep doing what you are doing and add a few things and you will take pressure off yourself and continue to improve and stay healthy. Good luck.
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Cher100 - With your limited mileage per week it is hard to answer. If you were running a lot of miles (80-100 KM per week), I would guess your 1/2 marathon pace would be 1.5-2 minutes per mile faster than "Easy" pace.
What is your pace difference in a 5K versus 1/2 marathon?
Do you do speed work? The only way to run faster comfortably is to run faster in training ... if all you training runs are at an easy pace - You cannot expect to run faster in a race.
If you are not doing speed workout - 2 easy ones to add:
Striders or 1 minute faster (Close to mile race pace) - You can look it up on the internet - It teaches your legs to run faster with efficiency
20 minutes @ T or LAT pace - Teaches your body to clear lactic acid to be able to run faster without heavy legs ... Also it will teach you to relax running faster.
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
I've found if about 2/3 of the way through a race, I start to think, "I may not be able to hold the pace to the finish", then that is just about right.
The best place to challenge yourself is in training. Try run something like 3x2 miles (with 2-3 minute jogs in between) at your goal HM pace. You may need to work up to it over several weeks (either shorter duration or longer jogs). I like doing these on a TM because I can control the pace precisely.
Good luck with the training!
I agree with the recommendations above around testing yourself out with some good training workouts - tempo workouts are a good way of testing where your pace is at.
I'd ignore the things about runners pushing themselves until they throw up. That's a pretty individual thing, and to be honest the only distance that has had me feeling close to throwing up is 5km.
A lot of it actually comes down to experience and trial and error during races - over time you start to get a feel for 'hard' vs. 'too hard'. My fastest half marathon times all have a slight positive split, so I'd definitely emptied the tank by the end but not so much that it ended up costing me more than a few seconds over the last 2-3km.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
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