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Hard-Easy Training (articles) (Read 914 times)

dillydoodles


    Hitting the virtual 'delete' button.


    A Dance with Monkeys

      Awww. Did I miss something? Interesting question on our local running board this morning:
      Okay, so I am supposed to run all my long runs at a relatively slow pace, say 45-90 seconds slower than my marathon goal pace. And I am supposed to run my marathon pace only for shorter runs, such as during 3-4 mile tempo runs or in the last quarter of a long run. And I am only supposed to run faster than that on even shorter runs, such as intervals. So how does it magically come together such that on marathon morning, never having run my goal pace for more than a few miles, I will suddenly be able to sustain that pace for 26.2 miles? It does not make sense to me.
        Yeah, I saw the article yesterday when it was still there. Some interesting points, nothing earth shattering.
        So how does it magically come together such that on marathon morning, never having run my goal pace for more than a few miles, I will suddenly be able to sustain that pace for 26.2 miles? It does not make sense to me.
        Me neither. That's why I (and a lot of other people) don't train that way.

        Runners run.


        A Dance with Monkeys

          Hitting the virtual 'delete' button.
          Hi Niagara-Runner Could you put the links back up to the articles please?? I read them but didn't save. Nothing wrong with linking to articles as far as I am aware. Others As far as this argument goes I can only use myself as an example. I decided that from the beginning of this year I would concentrate on building up my mileage by only running easy at 70% HR or less. My pace immediately tumbled into the 11-12 minute per mile pace. This is difficult to stick with when you know you can do better but it is said you need at least 6 weeks of this to make a difference. Lo and behold over the last few runs I have been noticing my heart rate actually dropping during a run and today I think I had a breakthrough in that most of my run was at 68% HR and I averaged 9.53 min per mile (and felt very easy). That is quite an improvement considering that I am using the same effort as before. In fact I think in truth it is even better than that considering some of the trail I run on is currently shoe-suckingly muddy. Soon I will move up to 75% HR effort and in another 6 weeks after that hopefully I will improve again. As far as I can tell at the moment there is some truth in the rumour that you can get faster by running slower. Having said that I don't believe there are many training regimes that tell you never to run harder at some stage. Take a look at my workouts since January 1st to see the drop in pace from December and then the improvement over the last few days.

          2013

          3000 miles

          Sub 19:00 for 5K  05-03-13 Clee Prom 5K - 19:00:66 that was bloody close!

          Sub-40:00 for 10K 17-03-13 Gainsborough 10K - 39:43

          Sub 88:00 for HM

           

            Lo and behold over the last few runs I have been noticing my heart rate actually dropping during a run and today I think I had a breakthrough in that most of my run was at 68% HR and I averaged 9.53 min per mile (and felt very easy). That is quite an improvement considering that I am using the same effort as before.
            Good point, Chris. For the last couple months, I've done basically the same thing - significantly increased my mileage, with almost all of it run slow and easy, with no real thought to increasing my speed. And while I may not (or may) have become faster at race pace, I am suddenly running certain paces much, much more easily. I pay no attention to my heartrate, but the other day I was on the treadmill running at 7:30 pace and singing. Out loud. Not even realizing it. Yes, I sing out loud on the treadmill. It's the only good reason to use one. The point is, 6 months ago I could have run that pace for a few miles - but I'd have been gasping. And I was able to sing. Badly, but singing nonetheless. Now, for a couple miles at least, that's become a more "conversational" pace. That, for me, is an impressive improvement. Whether that translates into a faster 10-k time, I don't know. But I think it puts me in a place to more readily handle the speed work.
            E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
            -----------------------------

              "And too there were questions: What did he eat? Did he believe in isometrics? Isotonics? Ice and heat? How about aerobics, est, ESP, STP? What did he have to say about yoga, yogurt, Yogi Berra? What was his pulse rate, his blood pressure, his time for 100-yard dash? What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles, Miles of Trials. How could they be expected to understand that?"


              A Dance with Monkeys

                Jeff, I just got my copy in the mail. Too bad I did not order it a decade ago. Instead, it cost me $50. Worth every penny.
                  Xanadu Stone knows...


                  A Dance with Monkeys

                    'Tis true the very fact of just running more miles in itself may be causing the improvement. However for me running those miles steadily has meant I have not suffered any injury (crosses fingers) nor felt particularly tired despite breaking the 10% rule. I did my first 50 mile week last week (52 miles) and am on target for a 200 mile month. That pace bunny has a lot to answer for. Wink

                    2013

                    3000 miles

                    Sub 19:00 for 5K  05-03-13 Clee Prom 5K - 19:00:66 that was bloody close!

                    Sub-40:00 for 10K 17-03-13 Gainsborough 10K - 39:43

                    Sub 88:00 for HM

                     


                    A Dance with Monkeys

                      I pumped my miles up high and ran lots of marathons. And I did not get faster. I may have even gotten slower. Now I am running much shorter weeks. I have been told not to run any more LSD. So I have been running everything at a 75ish - 95ish% effort. And, like with Chris' and JN's experience, it is getting easier. No, I do not sing. But I am getting faster while running faster while they are getting faster while running slower. Huh. What gives? Jeff. I have you in my sights... Also, no copyright problems with posting links.
                      Scout7


                      CPT Curmudgeon

                        I pumped my miles up high and ran lots of marathons. And I did not get faster. I may have even gotten slower. Now I am running much shorter weeks. I have been told not to run any more LSD. So I have been running everything at a 75ish - 95ish% effort. And, like with Chris' and JN's experience, it is getting easier. No, I do not sing. But I am getting faster while running faster while they are getting faster while running slower. Huh. What gives?
                        There comes a point of diminishing returns, as with all things. I'm going to speculate that while you were running all those miles, you didn't do much in the way of speed training. So, your aerobic base is pretty much established, and probably about as maxed out as you can make it with what you have available to you. Now, you need to focus on higher intensity. Also, depending on how long you've been running, there also comes a point where any improvements in ability from lots of easier miles will become fewer and far between. I know Chris is still building base aerobic condition (speculating the same for monkey man), so the improvements seen are much more noticeable. This is why there's periodization and such. Focusing on high miles generally means you're going to short yourself on speedwork. Focusing on speed generally precludes one's ability to get a lot of easier aerobic miles in.


                        A Dance with Monkeys

                          You speculated correctly Big grin Been running 26 months. All I did for 25 of them was build miles and base. Now I have to do some work. Sheesh.
                          Scout7


                          CPT Curmudgeon

                            You speculated correctly Big grin Been running 26 months. All I did for 25 of them was build miles and base. Now I have to do some work. Sheesh.
                            I rule.
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