10K Training Group, 8K's are welcome too

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So...for the next one.... (Read 723 times)


A Saucy Wench

    My next 10K is May 3rd. Given the unexpected magnitude of my HM PR, my McMillan 10K pace is 48:25. Not exactly sure of the course, but I suspect it will be hilly to some degree, just how hilly I am not sure. I would say my last 10K was moderate. I would call it flat for around here, but people who run in the midwest would call it hilly Tongue On the other hand I think most people would call that HM fairly hilly. Jim - its funny you brought up how ...unexpected my HM time was because I was going to post to you about it...that is not the first time I have been faster on the HM than the 10K (projection). This time I think it could be one of 2 things. First, maybe my 10K really should have been faster than it was. I was after all hacking up body parts for the first couple miles. Second, I have done so little speed work of any type in the last 6 months I wonder if my fast end is a bit weak. Thoughts? Opinions? What boggles me the most about last weekend is except for mile 9 when for some reason I "felt" slow so I started pushing and went under 8 and mile 13 where I was pushing hard uphill, I felt easy the whole way. I felt like I left something in the tank. I wasnt particularly tired after and my runs this week have been only marginally weaker. It didnt take anything close to as much out of me as the 10K did. Would you recommend I go out to try and be near that pace? 7:47. damn that sounds fast to me. After last time my goal was going to be 7:55's I have a lot of 10K's this year, so its not like if I majorly blow one up I will be crushed. Frankly I expected to blow up the HM. I thought 8:24's would be too fast for me to maintain and I would have a stellar 11 mile race with a 2 mile cool down. I just wanted to see where I was. This is all too much for the fat girl to handle Wink At this time last year I was thrilled to break a 9:30 on anything.

    I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

     

    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

      Hi Ennay I hope you don't mind me posting a reply - I know you are hoping to hear from Jim. But I've been in much the same boat as you this year so maybe I can help? Ok probably not help - but at least tell you how its been for me. I've found the very rapid improvements - especially at the longer distances (10k and HM) to be a bit disorientating, especially for racing, as its so hard to know what pace to go out at. The thing I've found that does work is to have two or three lined up fairly close together (how close depends on the distance) and then you can experiment a bit without fear. This time round I've got 2 maybe 3 HMs lined up. I'm going "cautiously optimistic" on the first one, knowing that if I crash I can try again a bit slower on the second but if I do ok I can go a bit harder on the second and see what I can really do. This time last year I too was the fat girl at the back. Literally - I came last in several of our local 5ks. I ran 29.08 in Feb 07 and 21.55 in April 08. Funny. But like you its my half marathon improvement that has just blown me away. And like you my 10ks are not so good. I don't think its speed for me - its just a distance I've never really got to grips with. I don't run them often enough I think - they are quite a rarity in NZ. Anyway - good luck whatever you decide to do - and be proud of your achievements over the last year. You are making amazing progress!


      A Saucy Wench

        Mandy - Thanks! I want to hear from everyone! Until this year I hadn't run many 10K's at all, so I decided to make myself run a bunch. Last year I focused more on the half and ran 4 in 5 months and then this year I'll only have a couple.

        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

         

        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

        mattw1970


        Injured

          Amazing improvement for both of you! Congrats!! Smile I see many faster race times in your future! Ennay - Im convinced that a hard run 10K isnt much different than a hard 5K or 5 miler. Just that it hurts for twice as long!!! Would you say the 10K course is hillier than your last HM or about the same ? Also how long ago was your 5K PR and how did that effort feel ?? Im guesing it was a while back and youve improved your running pace a fair amount since then. Since you say you have a few 10Ks lined up I would probably try to start out at 7:50-7:52 pace and go from there. If it still feels easy around mile 3 push a little harder. If its work then do your best to hold pace and save the extra energy for the last mile. Just my take on it. The last thing you want to do is go out too fast in the 10K and suffer the last 2 miles or so. Its a long way to hurt believe me ive been there Smile Good luck and can't wait to hear how you do!
          INJURED
            "What pace should I try for?" is one of most common questions asked on forums and one I think people get too hung up on. In the 10k, especially, I would go for that "comfortably hard" feeling, kind of like a tempo run would feel. It's ok to have a number in mind such as 7:47, but when all is said and done you are going to run what you can run. Never force the issue to hit a certain pace number until the later stages. If you go for that tempo feeling in the beginning chances are that the extra adrenaline and competition is going to push you to a faster mile split than what it feels like. Don't panic if your mile split is faster or slower than expected. Just stay with the "fast, relaxed" effort until the 2nd half of the race. Don't assume that you have to put on the brakes if your split is faster than expected. Think positive--that you are having a good day and ready to run a big race. Too many times I think we can psyche ourselves out when we see a fast split--"oh, I'd better slow down. I'm not supposed to be going this fast." Just focus on the effort and If you are feeling under control go with it Have a great race!
            Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33


            A Saucy Wench

              Sheesh...and I NEVER ask that question because I know already! Combination of shock and insecurity. Sometimes I am 37 and wise and sometimes I am 15. I swear to god I keep expecting an email saying "so sorry, we screwed up, the race was only 12.5 miles long" I think the question I was really driving at....is since it is unusual to have such a flat pace curve, do you think that more speed work would help me or is it more likely a function of what type of runner I am. (i.e. built for endurance more than speed) But obviously it is a bit early to ask even that question because of the order and circumstances of the races in question. 10K - sick, HM - magical dream day where everything came together. If 2 10K's down the road I am still so imbalanced it might be worth asking. But again--I probably know the answer if I just pay attention to myself. The reason I am not doing speedwork right now is I still dont trust my right ankle to take too much stress. So why would I let a chart tell me to run differently? A couple years ago a more experienced runner friend was telling me to slow down and throwing the McMillan stuff at me . At the time I had almost a NEGATIVE pace curve. (My 5K and HM pace were nearly equal, and my 10K was slower than either). And I told her that at the time for what my weaknesses were, I think I was doing what was right for me at that particular moment in time. I still hold to that ---I was so phenomenally unbalanced as a runner with an enormous endurance capacity but zero ability to push myself. I didnt HAVE the ability to run 12 mm in training and 10 mm in a race. I had the ability to run maybe 15-30 seconds faster in a race than in training period. I think developing that "gap" takes time sometimes. Anyway, I am rambling. I tend to do that at times. Although usually after a long-run. Roll eyes although usually after a long run I have answers, not just questions. Maybe I will know better after this weekend.

              I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

               

              "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


              A Saucy Wench

                Also how long ago was your 5K PR and how did that effort feel ?? Im guesing it was a while back and youve improved your running pace a fair amount since then.
                I dont really run 5K's. I ran one last year because there happened to be one 10 minutes away from me on a good weekend for it - but I went ahead and did my scheduled long run the day before - it was just for kicks. I think the last 5K I ran before that was when I was 6 months pregnant and accompanying some new runners to their first ever race. I expect I will run one sometime this year when I receive some flyer about a completely uncertified fun run/walk to raise money for something or other within a 10 mile radius of where I live. Oddly enough it is mostly dh ...he is very supportive of my running but he feels that if he is going to stay home with the kids while I get up ungodly early and drive forever (I live in the boonies) to race, it should at LEAST be a 10K. I have a 10K scheduled near the end of the year that is probably a 90 minute drive to get there and he keeps saying "ok, for a HM, but for a 10K?" I saw another thread where people had a $/mile entry fee limit, dh has a mile driven/mile run limit I think! Big grin MTA: can you tell I have had caffeine today? blah...blah..blah chitter chatter.

                I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                 

                "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                A Saucy Wench

                  Which of course means...I really wasnt asking what pace I should run...I know me, I know I will go out looking for the McMillan time even if you all said I was high as a kite. I honestly am so bad a judge of effort for the first 2 miles that I need the estimate even if I dont adjust for it. What I was REALLY doing was asking MYSELF if I was capable of that. Self-doubt is a bitch. Evil grin

                  I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                   

                  "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                    Oddly enough it is mostly dh ...he is very supportive of my running but he feels that if he is going to stay home with the kids while I get up ungodly early and drive forever (I live in the boonies) to race, it should at LEAST be a 10K. I have a 10K scheduled near the end of the year that is probably a 90 minute drive to get there and he keeps saying "ok, for a HM, but for a 10K?" I saw another thread where people had a $/mile entry fee limit, dh has a mile driven/mile run limit I think! Big grin MTA: can you tell I have had caffeine today? blah...blah..blah chitter chatter.
                    Not to just jump in (she says while just jumping in), but my husband would MUCH rather I train for a 5k, then a 10k or HM, since he's home with the kids during my long runs! Big grin
                    http://www.runningnotes.net


                    A Saucy Wench

                      Not to just jump in (she says while just jumping in), but my husband would MUCH rather I train for a 5k, then a 10k or HM, since he's home with the kids during my long runs! Big grin
                      Ahhh yes, but dh gets to sleep through a majority of my training. Even on the weekends when I go a little later, he and the kiddos are usually finishing up breakfast when I get back. And I can only do so many HM & M a year. If I were just doing 5K's I'd probably want to do 2 a month Tongue

                      I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                       

                      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                        It's quite weird how we all seem to go through similar periods of doubting our abilities, and confidence in them. I think I am just behind the two of you, Ennay and Mandy, both in experience and running speed. I am doing a half this weekend on a hilly course, then a 10k next weekend on a fast, downhill course. I have been trying to compare my fitness level this year with a year ago when I did the 10k as my first race, and trying to guesstimate what time to go for, I am thinking 48 minutes is about right. I have been very lucky with even pacing in my races so far, though just using an analogue wrist watch, now I have a Garmin I am getting all nervous about getting it right! I do find I get a lift from either the taper or race-day adrenaline, and can maintain a better pace than I expect, so I am sure Jim is right, don't limit your performance with preconceived ideas of what you can do, and I'll try not to as well. (By the way, you are not fat and I am not old!) Simon.

                        PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                                            10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

                         


                        A Saucy Wench

                          (By the way, you are not fat and I am not old!) Simon.
                          Ahhhh...but I used to be fat. Dd you used to be old? Evil grin Actually I think I am younger now than I was 10 years ago...except for the ready for bed at 8:30 part. HAve a great set of races Simon!

                          I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                           

                          "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                            all things are relative. i'm skinnier than i was but fatter than i want to be. good luck with your races simon


                            Future running partner.

                              You two (Ennay, MandyS) are right about the same level I am. I started about a year ago. My first race after running for about a month was an 8k and I finished in 49:12. I also weighed about 192 lbs at the time. I spent that summer building up to running 40+miles/week and ran the Va Beach RnR HM in Sept. I ran pretty well in that for ther first 10miles finishing in under 1:40. Then bonked since I had never ran farther than 10 before to finish in about 2:15. Shortly after I was sidelined for a few weeks. Then started back up, this time I incorporated some mile repeats and tempo runs. In November I ran a 10k in 53:23. Well since that race I have done pretty much every workout imaginable and suffered some breaks in training due to injuries. My goal this weekend is to run an 8k in under 40. Here is what I have learned from my experience and from research: I think it's a good idea to aim for a long term goal, 4 to 6 months out where you are looking to peak. In the quest you have some buildup/tuneup races to help you with pacing your training runs and to see how your progressing. For each race set a goal that is reasonable. You might to have to adjust it, based on weather, course hillyness, etc. In practice I have been having some success with doing few tempo or aerobic interval runs at that goal race pace. As a result my confidence is pretty high because my last work out at race pace felt very comftorble. I also have a good idea of what effort to start out at during my race. About 3 weeks ago I ran a 10k expecting to easily break 50. Man was I disappointed when I only finished in 52:04. Did really only improve by about 1:20 since last november, after all that hard work over the winter? I reallized that this must have been an off day. I did not warm up well, it was a little warmer that day and there was an unexpected hill in the first mile, which heavily skewed my first mile split. I was so discouraged I ran a pretty lousy race. A few days later I ran 10 miles in about 90 minutes and it wasn't even hard. Lesson learned race times can very dramaticaly based on a variety of conditions, don't be discouraged by that and just be very well prepared. Wow I didn't think I would right this long. Yes