3650 Miles in the Hurtlocker

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Crossing the line (Read 246 times)

DoppleBock


    As we do good workouts and get faster - stronger it is fun and we tend to ramp up the workouts harder or longer because we can do them - At what point do we cross the line and just because we can do them does not mean they have a place in our training?

     

    I have been vigilant this year not to cross the training line and risk injury - Earlier this year it was easier and my fitness was lower.  Now as fitness is moderate I am understanding why I cross the line ... Because I can (Not that I should)

     

    My goal in 2012 was to leave the heroic workouts for races and train key workouts at moderate levels. 

     

    I think as we get more fit this becomes harder - It is not the 1 hard workout that likely sinks us - But the 2 or 3 close together.

     

    Friday night I was feeling pretty good so I ran up and down the hill at the state park for 4:45 - Just up and down ... repeat.  The most I had doe previously was 3:40.  That in itself was too much - But by itself was just fine.

     

    Saturday I ran 11 in the morning and cut the afternoon run to 5, because I was feeling tired.

     

    Sunday I was just fine for 50k on the track - I stopped at the right time - But then I followed up with 8 at night.

     

    Because of circumstance I did a 4 hour hilly trail run in the afternoon Monday after 8 easy in the morning..

     

    Not trying to impress anyone with mileage - But in 4 days I did 3 long runs

    *  Friday was closer the hard than moderate

    *  Sunday was Moderate

    *  Monday was really hard and last 2 hours at race effort - But made that way because of  Friday and Sunday

     

    I think I am fine - But I have a sore right foot (Scared about SFX) - Hips and knees that hurt (Likely Temp)

     

    I might have got away with it this time with nothing but a little over-training ... but sooner or later I will be injured or well over-trained.

     

    When and how do you cross the training line?

    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

     


    Fat butt on couch

      Good post.

       

      When you are not fit it is hard to cross the danger line, at least with regards to overtraining.  You either can't handle the work to do it, or your body rejects it via injury.  I agree that it is when you are fit that you are in the most danger.

       

      I do not think I have overdone it in that way in quite awhile, but when I was very fit I was guilty of it my share of times.  In 2006 through February and March I was running progressively longer intervals within my interval sessions, prepping for a sub-2:22 attempt.  Also a hard tempo session each week and a long run with quality in it.  I got up to 4X2000m one week, I struggled on the last interval but did the workout at goal pace (6:10s?).  Then the next week was 3X3000m.  I did OK on the first, struggled on the second, and cut the third short at 2000m to avoid over-doing the effort on the workout.  I took a little extra rest over the next week as my goal 10K was approaching, then a week out from the 3000m intervals did a comfortable 4 mile tempo at 5:13 pace (fastest ever).  That was a Tuesday; on Friday I ran 30:57 10K. 

       

      In retrospect, I should have known that I was "there" and entered an easier maintenance phase to prep for my goal marathon a month out.  But I had self-doubt and convinced myself that I needed to do one more really good marathon indicator workout to confirm that I could do 2:21.  So one day into a road trip to a wedding in Florida, I went out and did 15 miles at sub-5:25 pace...goal MP.  Again in retrospect, I had a niggle in my hamstring ever since the 10K which I had thought was just race soreness.  But within an hour of this workout, as I sat in a car driving for many hours, it became clear that I had sustained a more significant injury during the race and aggravated it with the over-the-top workout.  I also felt just awful...full body...despite the actual pace not being one that should have been really challenging (hint hint).

       

      The injury held back my training but it was only the cherry on top.  That workout also threw me into full-fledged overtraining, and I was crap from there until my goal marathon...which I only ran at a serious effort for 3 miles.

       

      I was stunned how fast I could go from running the race of myself to so over-trained that I couldn't even do a serious workout, even when the hamstring would allow it.

       

      A long story to say....I think in addition to being in good shape putting it at risk of over-doing it, I think it's also doing "indicator workouts" vs lower intensity or shorter fitness-building workouts.

       

       

       

      Sunday I was just fine for 50k on the track

       On a track??  Seriously??  Dude...

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

      DoppleBock


        Back then you were doing 3-4 hard workouts a week - It could have been you actully over-did it and crossed the line prior to the 10,000 PR - THe 10,000 might have been the thing that broke you and the 15 @ MP the one where it showed up.

         

        I know its a fine line between getting the absolute most out of your body and breaking it - I think in my case the Friday 33 miles of nothing but going up and down the hill was the one that was too much - The 50k on the track I was already broken - but could get away with it and the 4 hour trial run is where it all came out in the open.

         

        Yes - I did a 40 miler on the track not too far back - I am looking toward a 24 hour on the track - They change direction every 3 hours.  I am not sure if my body can take it. 

        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

         


        Fat butt on couch

          Back then you were doing 3-4 hard workouts a week - It could have been you actully over-did it and crossed the line prior to the 10,000 PR - THe 10,000 might have been the thing that broke you and the 15 @ MP the one where it showed up.

           

           

          Hard to say....IMHO there were signals I was on the razor's edge for the 10K but if I had backed off right then I should have been OK.  Shoulda coulda woulda.  My definition of over-training would exclude the ability to run such a great effort...YMMV of course...

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

          DoppleBock


             I guess that is my point of question - Cause and effect.  The cause of your over-training was before the 10k ... only because you do not become overtrained by 1 workout or race - You body was strong - but not fully recovered - strong enough to cash in on the 10k - But also your hamstring was weak enough to receive trauma from the 10k. 

             

            I am not saying you are not right - Just thinking through the subject out load.

             

            For me I could even point back to a 40 mile TM run on July 31st - Then 3 runs in a day with 2:40 of nothing but hills - then a 5k race - next dday and easy 23 on track - Then I got a little gready on my 4x1 mile run bumping the pace up more than I should have week over week - then the 33 mile of nothing but hills

             

            Each one would have been fine if I allowed more recovery - But the collection of them lead me to the position of over-doing it.  Of course this in on a 43 year old body.  Heck I ran Carmel Marathon and the next day I ran the 26 miles I ran yesterday ... but I had tapered before and took a couple easy days after.

             

             

            Hard to say....IMHO there were signals I was on the razor's edge for the 10K but if I had backed off right then I should have been OK.  Shoulda coulda woulda.  My definition of over-training would exclude the ability to run such a great effort...YMMV of course...

            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

             

              Reading thru your exchanges brings to mind the following quote...

               

              "If you over trained, it means that you didn't train hard enough to handle that level of training...So you weren't over trained; you were actually under trained to begin with..." (Hillary Biscay)

              www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

              DoppleBock


                Is he related to Yogi ? 

                 

                 

                Reading thru your exchanges brings to mind the following quote...

                 

                "If you over trained, it means that you didn't train hard enough to handle that level of training...So you weren't over trained; you were actually under trained to begin with..." (Hillary Biscay)

                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                 

                DoppleBock


                  All that is saying to me is you ramped up too quickly or in another works increase the intenstity or duration at too fast a rate.

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                    All that is saying to me is you ramped up too quickly or in another works increase the intenstity or duration at too fast a rate.

                     

                    I think Hillary Biscay is a female triathlete but I could be wrong.

                     

                    And yeah, I agree with your take...it's just a tad more profound with the way she(he) puts it.

                     

                    I guess you could also say I haven't trained hard enough to train that hard yet.

                    www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building


                    Fat butt on couch

                       

                       

                      I guess you could also say I haven't trained hard enough to train that hard yet.

                       

                       

                      Hard is used two entirely different ways there.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       


                      Prince of Fatness

                        I crossed the line about two and a half years ago and have not been the same since.

                         

                        Or not.

                         

                        I knew things weren't quite right but I had a rematch with Thomas the Tank Engine and tried to hold things together until after we raced.  I came up about a week or two short and ended up being a DNF.

                         

                        Honestly I do not know what I would have done differently.  Well, I sort of don't.

                         

                        Anyway as miserable of a shit that I have been since then I have no regrets.  I was in pretty good shape running lifetime PR's and it was fun as hell.

                        Semi-retired.