So say you use up your training on a marathon that is so hot they shut it down for the slower runners...you run 5 minutes slower than your PR, and at least 9 minutes slower than you had thought you could run after putting in what you thought was a really good training cycle.

Would you do a do-over, say, May 15th?

And do you think if you did a do-over...you still wouldn't run what you COULD have ran, or that...by chance...it is actually possible to run what you COULD have ran even though you've beat up your legs?

Ben is from IL, right? 

 

Because it could be just as hot 5/15 in IL as it was in STL over the weekend, I vote no.  It sounds to me like you are more interested in running a great fall marathon, and this will just delay your recovery by a month and may give you the same result if it's hot.  And if it isn't hot you'll still crush your HM PR the same day.   

 +1!

Ben is from IL, right? 

 

Because it could be just as hot 5/15 in IL as it was in STL over the weekend, I vote no.

 Yes and I vote the same.

Sara, when are all the seattle marathons?

The Seattle Rock and Roll is a good one if you are willing to wait. It is June 25th. A couple little hills, but pretty flat for Seattle. I really like the course and the temps are usually mild. The first year it was warm, but still maybe 70 at the most. Last year 3:05 got you in the top 5.

Another good one, but a lot sooner... 5/1 Eugene Marathon

Would you do a do-over, say, May 15th?

 

And do you think if you did a do-over...you still wouldn't run what you COULD have ran, or that...by chance...it is actually possible to run what you COULD have ran even though you've beat up your legs?

How bad are you beat up?  This is not meant harsh so don't take it this way (sensitive to crap on the internet being taken how it's not intended)... the better time to ask this question would have been when you realized how hot St Louis was going to be.  Then we could have advised to run it as a workout or bail when things started feeling bad, saving yourself for a May race, not gutting through and trashing your legs in an attempt destined to fail. 

I went to Boston 2004 very confident I was going to run 2:26.  Then we got the forecast (85+ deg by start).  If I had had enough money back then to bail and run Bayshore in Michigan a month later, you bet I would have bailed before I started or just hobby-jogged it.  I swore I'd never cross the start line at another race like that, and true to that promise I canceled my trip to Chicago 2007 two days out and avoided a repeat disaster.

Assuming you are pretty beat up from giving it a good go....like it sounds like you did....I do not think that even giving good weather you will be ready to take that 9min off a month from now.  You cashed in some chips, no way around that.

I'd give 2 options:

1)  Take your lumps, recover, and prepare for fall;

2)  Take about 10 days really good recovery, then get some good training in with just a week solid taper, and:

     a) if the weather is bad bail or run a HM;

     b) if the weather is great, run your PR pace for 18-20 miles than give it, targeting maybe 1-2min PR;

     c) if the weather is great, but at any point during the race you feel it is not there for the taking, bail and save yourself to return to good training sooner.

Notice that even if you go for it, 2 of the 3 scenarios have you bailing.  I would not run it if you are mentally committed to destroying yourself in a PR attempt even when you start to fall behind.  This is one time there is no shame in dropping out.

I'm really considering such a strategy pro-actively for next spring....set out a list of small spring marathons within driving distance that don't cap out and allow registration within 1-2 weeks of the race.  Start training, and simply target in on the race that seems to be timed right given how my training is going....if I show up and one is hot, I can bail and target a later one.  Sure it messes with the taper but you can stretch fitness out a few extra weeks.  It's racing one and blowing out your legs that limits options more.

Maybe you can set a hot weather PR and come to Grandmas?

Personally, I wouldn't attempt it.  Too many 'hard' efforts at 26.2 will take it out of you rather than build you up.  I'd wait for a cool-weather Fall marathon and dive back into training after some recovery.

I'm pretty sure Candice is one who does find shame in a DNF, but I'll throw a +1 anyway.

 

MTA: And great job holding on and bringing it home in that nasty heat/humidity.  From what I've been reading, lots of folks didn't manage it as well as you and Ben did.

Yes, I am. But I have taken a DNF once due to medical issues. The reason I didn't quit yesterday (though I really, really wanted to) is because I know what pulling out of a race feels like. It feels way worse than not hitting a time goal. I didn't have medical issues yesterday, so I had no excuse. I had to keep running. I stayed diligent about hydration with gatorade and avoided drinking too much water even though it tasted better (which has landed me in the med tent before) 

While i'm stubborn and hard on myself about things like DNF, spaniels suggestions are logical because honestly, nobody cares if you DNF.

Anyway, after walking around a bit today I guess I will go with spaniels "1", and what most of you are suggesting/have suggested (thanks- btw). Run fast in the fall. Running a fast half  May 15th might be more fun, and only half the pain. I have to take possibly this whole week off anyway (4 days marathon recovery + getting my wisdom teeth removed Friday)

The tentative marathon schedule is actually an August marathon first (Paavo Nurmi in N. WI, the one Ben has won the past 5 years), followed by NYC in November...which is the goal race, and the one I hope to go sub 3 at. I have no idea if this is possible at all. I feel like if I can run around what I wanted to run yesterday (3:05ish) at Paavo, but probably not faster given that it will be August and may or may not be warm. It was warm last year, but sometimes it's fine given that it's Northern Wisconsin.