3650 Miles in the Hurtlocker

Boston 2013 (Read 601 times)


Feeling the growl again

    Good points about managing recovery - it's at least as important as the quality work itself.  I would also mention that, if you're only interested in performing well at the marathon distance, the intervals don't need to be run at 5K pace or even close to 5K pace.  I know Spaniel didn't advocate any particular pacing or length on the intervals but I think most of us would try to run these too fast.  As I've gotten older, paces just on the 'harder' side of comfortably hard combined with short recovery jogs has seemed to strike the right balance of quality without overdoing it.  As well, the higher your fitness level it seems the recovery becomes easier (although it may just be because I'm not over-running my quality workouts).  3650 miles, or an honest attempt at it, will help.  Just some random thoughts on the aging marathon runner.

     

    I would not disagree with you.  Although if I do eventually get around to entering all my old log data so I have 10+ years in one spot, you would see that I did in fact run my intervals fast...below 5K pace for 800s, roughly 5K-8K pace for 1000s, and 8K pace for mile repeats.  But that was in the context of low-2:30 or sub-2:30 marathon training and I only did stuff like that about 4 months out of the year total.

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     

    I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

     


    #artbydmcbride

      "3650 miles, or an honest attempt at it, will help"

       

      yeah....no..........not this aging runner (I know what real aging is!)    But I will be racing a lot while training....

       

      Runners run

      xhristopher


        Good points about managing recovery - it's at least as important as the quality work itself.  I would also mention that, if you're only interested in performing well at the marathon distance, the intervals don't need to be run at 5K pace or even close to 5K pace

         

        This is part of my thinking going into this, especially since in my 5K pr is so far out of alignment with my marathon pr. Both were set within 5 weeks of each other but the 5K indicates I should have been much faster at the marathon. Also, being careful not to race my workouts will help me reduce the likelihood for injury. I'll probably gravitate towards tempos a little quicker than HM pace which will hopefully give me a good stimulus but not break me down too badly. That tradeoff might cost me a little at the 5K but It's not important to set a 5K pr this spring.

        kcam


          I would not disagree with you.  Although if I do eventually get around to entering all my old log data so I have 10+ years in one spot, you would see that I did in fact run my intervals fast...below 5K pace for 800s, roughly 5K-8K pace for 1000s, and 8K pace for mile repeats.  But that was in the context of low-2:30 or sub-2:30 marathon training and I only did stuff like that about 4 months out of the year total.

           

          I agree that a younger runner running those times is training completely differently than the 3 hour 40 year old marathoner is.  Also, I wonder if the extreme level of fitness you achieved at that time had something to do with your ability to recover from those kinds of workouts?  I don't know, obviously, for sure but I think that I recover 'better' the fitter I am ....  MTA - obviously that would break down at some point (recovering better as you get fitter/faster) so maybe it's not even valid?

           

          Nowadays if I'm training for a marathon I find myself only doing 5K-paced work or maybe a little faster for strides.  For periods when I'm shorter distance training I do some intervals faster or around 5K pace.

            Now as I get old, I would probably either a) skip the intervals every other week, or b) do the mid-week workout on Friday instead for more recovery after intervals.  Or some combo thereof as I can't recover as quickly anymore...especially from intervals.

             

            The mid-long run with tempo work in it was, for me, far more important for success in the marathon than the long run.  Really.

             

            Am I too late for the party?  When I ran Milwaukee in 2011, my training through the summer was hit and miss due to two hamstring bouts and a strained back at one time.  About all I was able to piece together was a six week consistent stretch of training (avg 69.6 mpw).  Long runs were between 16-18 mi (pace range between 6:45 - 7:00).  I did one other key workout during the week and rotated between progression, tempo and fartlek runs.

             

            I'm not sharing this to say look how little I did.  I'm sharing it because when I look back at it, I learned something.  Like many others, I find that I don't allow myself to recover adequately and I tend to run recovery and easy runs too fast.  I think I'm finally learning that and am actually working on trying to keep my paces manageable.  You'll see a lot more easy runs closer to a 7:15-7:20 pace now.  It's easy on a TM but when I get out on the roads/paths, I tend to just let myself go by feel and sometimes that feel causes me to creep up that pace in the upper 6 mpm range.

             

            I should piece together some kind of plan but what I struggle with is that I find it hard to balance the demands of time (kids, work, spouse working out, etc) with scheduled training runs.  For example, I know I can fit in a long run and a key workout during a week.  But to ensure I do it in a way that allows me to recover and maintain the other components of training (strength work, mid-week long run, etc), it becomes more complex and more challenging.  When you consider all the components in a training plan, there is always something that falls short for me.

              my 5K pr is so far out of alignment with my marathon pr. Both were set within 5 weeks of each other but the 5K indicates I should have been much faster at the marathon.

               

              X, I feel your pain here.

              Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
              We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
              xhristopher


                X, I feel your pain here.

                 

                We've got nothing on Bash. Poor guy has a 17:02 5K pr. One day, hopefully soon, he'll look back and laugh at that.


                Feeling the growl again

                  ....Also, I wonder if the extreme level of fitness you achieved at that time had something to do with your ability to recover from those kinds of workouts?  I don't know, obviously, for sure but I think that I recover 'better' the fitter I am ....  MTA - obviously that would break down at some point (recovering better as you get fitter/faster) so maybe it's not even valid?

                   ...

                   

                  Yes and no.  Yes, I totally agree that the more fit I get the faster I recover.  But if I look at myself now, and pick a time 10 years ago when I was in equivalent shape....I recovered much faster back then.

                   

                   

                  MTA:  I think it's pretty accepted that recovery is one of the major things impacted by age; I've seen several interviews with the elites who run well into their mid-30s talking about how one of the major changes they've made to their training as they aged was allowing more for recovery.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   

                  I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                   

                  DoppleBock


                    I like beer the same now as back then

                     

                    But I drink beer more often now

                     

                    But I drank more beer total back then

                     

                    I guess I am stuck in a monotonous beer training mode right now ... I need more variation.

                    Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

                     

                     


                    Feeling the growl again

                      I like beer the same now as back then

                       

                      But I drink beer more often now

                       

                      But I drank more beer total back then

                       

                      I guess I am stuck in a monotonous beer training mode right now ... I need more variation.

                       

                       

                      You need to periodize your training.  Winter is time for scotch.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                      I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                       

                      DoppleBock


                        Scotch Ale yes -  

                         

                        You need to periodize your training.  Winter is time for scotch.

                        Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

                         

                         

                        C-R


                          I like beer the same now as back then

                           

                          But I drink beer more often now

                           

                          But I drank more beer total back then

                           

                          I guess I am stuck in a monotonous beer training mode right now ... I need more variation.

                            Small batch bourbon

                           

                          That is all.


                          "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                          "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                          http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                          bhearn


                            So are you going to modify Hanson's?  I know you had some reservations about the long run length.

                             

                            I would like to play it straight -- well, adding some miles to their Advanced Program, in accordance with the recommendations in the book. I'd like to be at 75-80 mpw. Yeah, I am accustomed to running training marathons in place of long runs; I'm willing to mostly give that up at least once to see what happens.

                             

                            But I am going to have to throw a big wrench in the plan for Rocky Raccoon; I'm committed to that. Probably that will basically be three weeks of downtime (one-week taper, two-week recovery) -- along with whatever benefit I get from running 100 miles.

                            xhristopher


                              I got the book and will read it like I did pfitz and daniels. Unfortunately, in the end, I know I'll end up fitting in runs and workouts in the nooks and cracks of my schedule and weather conditions while trying my best to be smart about it. 

                               

                              One thing that is important to me is tune up races. I'm still at a place where they have an equal or stronger mental stimulus as physical stimulus. I'll usually run a couple tune ups in times that tell me my marathon goal is realistic and will give me a lot of mental confidence for the marathon.

                               

                              I certainly could see myself following the Hanson plan for a goal half marathon. I'm much more familiar and mentally strong with that distance.

                              bhearn


                                I would not disagree with you.  Although if I do eventually get around to entering all my old log data so I have 10+ years in one spot, you would see that I did in fact run my intervals fast...below 5K pace for 800s, roughly 5K-8K pace for 1000s, and 8K pace for mile repeats.  But that was in the context of low-2:30 or sub-2:30 marathon training and I only did stuff like that about 4 months out of the year total.

                                 

                                I have always done all the Pfitzinger VO2max stuff at 5K pace -- including the mile repeats, which suck. I figured I'd keep this up on Hansons. Hmm.