Beginners and Beyond

12

Post-marathon, now what? (Read 88 times)

Jack K.


uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

    It has been eleven days since I ran my first marathon. I have run twice since then and both times my legs felt heavy and tired. Today I ran 30 minutes and after about 25 minutes they started to feel somewhat better. I am looking forward to when I feel fresh again.  So, what now? Part of me wants to run another marathon before September to "try" for a faster BQ time but the other part of me doesn't want to go through the abuse of marathon training. I have my eye on another marathon at the end of May but that is that too soon? I enjoy all the other race distances so should I just get back into my usual 35-45 mpw and find a HM and 10ks? I know it is soon after a big race, but I am getting conflicting messages from my body and brain on what to do next. What would you do or what did you do after your first marathon?

     

    Thanks in advance.

    Docket_Rocket


      May is far enough for you to recover and take advantage of your current training.  I would count the weeks until the May marathon and see how much time do you have, increase mileage back to the level you need gradually until training starts.  You will not need 18 weeks of training (maybe check the Pfitz 12 week ones) and see where your fitness is at then.

       

      That is if you want to do another marathon, which sounds like you are.  If you don't want to go through that, then find a HM in the Spring (or a 10K) and do something like a Daniels' plan.

      Damaris

       

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      Jack K.


      uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

        D: Interesting... I didn't know Pfitz had a 12 week plan. Excellent idea.

        FSocks


        KillJoyFuckStick

          Drinking heavily and getting fat is always an option.

          You people have issues 

          happylily


            Jack, we ran our marathons one day apart. I'm doing the Pfitz recovery plan, but shortened it to 4 weeks, instead of 5. That's because I plan on running a marathon in mid-May and I need 18 weeks to train because I want to go back to my pre-Boston mileage, which gave me better results in both the marathon and the half. Do you feel you could do a version of 55/70? That would be a sure way to help you get a stronger BQ. At the moment, you are not 100% certain of getting into Boston if they decide to return the field to its regular size in 2015. You have until September to run a faster BQ. If it were me, I would work on that. The second training cycle will feel easier for you, and also the race itself. Once you've run Boston, then you can do whatever you want with the rest of your running life. That would be my stance.

            PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                    Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

            18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

            Love the Half


              Drinking heavily and getting fat is always an option.

               

              That's usually a part of my post-marathon routine.

               

              I'm not a fan of 12 week plans.  Pfitz has a 5 week plan between marathons as well but that doesn't mean you'll perform optimally.  The reality is that you lose speed during marathon training.  Yeah, you BQ'd but it's not a time that's fast enough to guarantee entry.  I would spend the winter and spring focusing on redeveloping speed.  You do that by training for a 5K.  Pick out a race some time in late March or early April and make that your goal race.  Then, target a fall marathon for your faster BQ time.

               

              I always hear this stuff about taking advantage of your marathon fitness and I have not found that to be the case.  In fact, I lose fitness after a marathon because the recovery takes so damn long.  By the time I can actually train again, my legs have lost all of their "pop" and it takes me a good couple of months to get it back again.  It's one reason I don't race marathons very often.

              Short term goal: 17:59 5K

              Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

              Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

              happylily


                LTH, what would be the latest Jack could do a marathon in the fall if he wants to try for Boston 2015? Wouldn't that be like in September? That is early and it would have to be a cooler race, not a summer temperature.

                PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                        Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                MothAudio


                  Conventional wisdom would side with LTH - recover, work on your speed, target a Spring 10k - half and then point toward a Fall marathon. Then it comes down to scheduling and finding the right race. I've never run more than two marathons in a year and never closer than 5 months apart and like LTH it's taken me longer to recover from a MAX marathon than most other runners. I suspected this has to do with the effort and the lack of base miles. Once I bumped up my base / mileage to recommended levels I noticed my recovery to be much quicker but I never attempted to run another marathon in short order. If I was ready physically perhaps mentally I was a bit fried.  Instead I switched gears and targeted a fast 5k. That I found was not only a successful formula but fun to make such a radical changes in training schedules. I personally like shorter [9-12 week] schedules for a variety of reasons, regardless if I'm targeting the 5k or the marathon. I set my Master marathon PB on a 6 week schedule [2 week taper] after transitioning from a 5k schedule. Go figure.

                   

                   

                  p.s. Post your miles for M.R.T.

                   Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile

                   

                  Jack K.


                  uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

                    My big problem is the summer heat. It would be tough for me to train for a fall marathon in 90-100 heat. This running stuff is complicated.

                       

                        The reality is that you lose speed during marathon training.  

                       

                      Not saying you're saying it, but this is not everyone’s reality. For many runners, especially those training for their first marathon and ramping up mileage to places it hasn’t been before, speed can be gained.

                       

                      And clearly, recovery is also highly individual –you may take longer than someone younger than you.

                       

                      I’m starting to think 18 weeks is too damn long for runners who maintain decent mileage base throughout the year. I did pretty well off 12 weeks this past fall. Meh, every body's fancy (every body's fine, your body's fancy, and so is mine)

                       

                      Last chance to better your time for 2015 will be either Sept 7 or 14 2014, depending on when they start registration (this year was Monday Sept 9, last year was Monday Sept 10). It seems like 2nd Monday in Sept, so probably 7th. I used a race on Sept 8 this year, knowing it was a roll of the dice with the weather. Turned out okay.

                      Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                      We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
                      happylily


                        I've done the 6, the 8, the 10 and the 12 week Pfitz plans. Unless you don't consider BQing each time good enough, I think I got satisfying enough results. For Boston, I used the 12 week plan, immediately after running a 3:38 hilly marathon. No time for a recovery period, not even one week. I finished Boston in 3:27 (adjust that to a man's time my age and it gives a 3:00:43 finish time). I know it depends on people's ability to recover from their marathon, only Jack knows that about himself. Maybe in his case he could take another 3 weeks of light running, then transition to a 5 week 5k training cycle (I think both LTH and Mike have a great training plan for that) and then transition for the 12 week Pfitz marathon plan. I see the spring better for him if Boston 2015 is the goal.

                        PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                        18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                        LRB


                          For me, marathon training takes its toll.  Even though I may enjoy it to an extent, training for them is work.  There is always that feeling the deeper I get into it of when in the f*** will it be over.

                           

                          Of course, there are those who enjoy said training and can run multiple marathons per calendar year so there is that.

                           

                          I can only say what I would do; I enjoy the shorter distances because there is much less pressure on your schedule and the need to get your quality workouts in.  Your quality workouts are also shorter, so there is less of a time commitment involved.

                           

                          I get to experience that race day euphoria twice per month (which is also two chances to piss and moan about race times, ha!), and the next race is always right around the corner.

                           

                          The ultimate benefit for me though is that running those races are done with the marathon in mind.  So there is a trickle down effect if you will that hopefully pays dividends on the big day.

                           

                          The period immediately following the marathon is my favorite.  I get to do whatever I want which also includes not doing jack shit.  You may be a goal oriented person though and finding a void now that your race is over, that is quite normal.

                           

                          Setting your sights on the next event will give you something to look forward to.  Whether it is a marathon, or a goal 5k with a challenging time as was the case for me this past spring.

                           

                          I ran two marathons twice in a six month period before and swore I would never do it again.  The only way I could see doing it is if one was at easy pace.

                           

                          But there again there are those who do it all the time so take that for what it's worth.

                          Jack K.


                          uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

                            LRB: I agree with everything you said. I think we are very similar in the way we think and train (and sometimes drink)... eerily similar. I enjoy all race distances for different reasons and I love race day.  Now that I have done one, I can say I even like the marathon, in a weird sort of way, though I was sick of the training at week 15 or 16.

                             

                            That being said, I need to recover, find a race or two (5 or 10k) to put on my calendar, and go from there. Signing up and paying for a race is good motivation for me.  Another marathon is definitely on my mind. Thanks for your opinions.

                            wcrunner2


                            Are we there, yet?

                              Seems like a lot of personal experience is being generalized as universals, but they aren't true universally. I expect LTH would be hard put to convince me that you lose speed during marathon training when I set my all-time mile PB three weeks before setting my all-time marathon PB. Ditto with recovery taking so long that one can't take advantage of one's marathon fitness to race well at other distances. Nor does youth have anything to do with that if my recent experience with my first ultra is any indication. The two months following that race saw my highest monthly mileage totals in many years as well as my fastest 5K in over 3 years.

                               

                              If I were in your position I would look first at long term goals, whether that be a better BQ to have a better chance of being accepted in the race or chasing faster PBs in the shorter races. Then I would look at personal preferences such as how frequently I want to race, when I want to do my heavy training, e. g. in the heat or in the cold and snow. Ditto for when I prefer racing my chosen distance. After that I would begin outlining a race schedule, then work on training schedules to fit that.

                               2024 Races:

                                    03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                    05/11 - D3 50K
                                    05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                                    06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                               

                               

                                   

                                Nor does youth have anything to do with that if my recent experience with my first ultra is any indication.

                                 

                                "And clearly, recovery is also highly individual –you may take longer than someone younger than you."

                                 

                                Yes, my dash was a lazy replacement for "for example", not meant as universal truth.

                                Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                                We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
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