what are your thoughts on this article from competitor running,
http://running.competitor.com/2015/07/training/is-overdistance-training-beneficial-for-runners_132155
Is it wise to push yourself further in training than you need to go on race day? In other words, is there any benefit to overdistance training, or exceeding the distance of the event you’re training for in your long runs?
The short answer is yes—but there is one major exception, says Jeff Gaudette, head coach of Runners Connect and a two-time All-American at Brown University.
“The marathon is the only distance I believe you should not run the distance before the race as the costs [as in an increased chance of injury] do not outweigh the benefits,” he contends.
When undertaking over distance runs for the first time, Gaudette advises runners to start slow and gradually increase the length of their long runs in the base-training phase of their program. “For runners from the 5K to the half-marathon, building up to a 15-mile run will allow the runner to develop their aerobic base,” he explains. “This will not only help them feel better about the race, going into it with confidence knowing that they have already completed the distance and then some, but it is a great way of seeing progress as those long runs become easier, especially as the pace becomes faster when the runner’s fitness improves.”
Aside from building confidence, overdistance runs also train your body to run more efficiently when tired. Gaudette points out that as you get further into a long run, the slow-twitch fibers you’ve been using start to fatigue and they no longer fire as efficiently. “As a consequence, you start to recruit some intermediate fibers to help maintain pace,” he says. “Of course, these intermediate fibers require more glycogen and are not as fatigue-resistant as slow-twitch, so it won’t be long before you find yourself slowing dramatically as your muscles start to fail. The more you can simulate this in training, the more prepared your body will be during the race.”
Overdistance runs are also a great way to build your aerobic system, which is the primary and most important energy system used in distance events. Gaudette says that for the 5K, the aerobic system is responsible for about 88 percent of the energy used to run the race. For a half marathon, he says it’s 98 percent. Longer runs help build the aerobic system better than any other type of training.
As a rule of thumb for how long your overdistance runs should be in relation to the distance of your goal race, Tina Muir, a coach and 2:41 marathoner, suggests half marathoners aim for 16-mile long runs, 10K runners up to 14 miles and 5K runners up to 12 miles. She says to keep your experience level, injury history and past training history in mind when experimenting with upping the distance of your longest runs.
It’s important to keep in mind that overdistance runs should not dominate your training routine or serve as a substitute for other types of challenging workouts such as interval workouts or tempo runs. Muir says that runs exceeding 90 minutes in duration should be done at a moderate pace, since it’s a big ask of the body.
1. Surging Long Runs
Gaudette likes assigning the following workout 5-6 weeks out from a goal half marathon:
— Map out a 16-mile long run.
— Run the first 10 miles at an easy pace. Beginning at mile 10, run seven, 90-second surges at your 5K race pace with about 5 minutes of slower running for recovery between each surge.
“These surge long runs teach you to run fast while fatigued, which develops race-specific strength and skills,” Gaudette contends. “They also help increase the overall quality and pace of your long run, thus enabling you to finish faster.”
2. Progressive Long Runs
— Throughout the course of your long run, gradually pick up the pace from a slow jog at the beginning to the point where for the last 2-5 miles of the run, you’re running at your goal half-marathon or marathon race pace.
“A few times during the training cycle, runners can have overdistance runs where they run progressively,” says Muir. “This means they start out at regular, recovery run pace, and slowly begin to run faster each mile—not forcing the pace, but allowing their body to get into a rhythm and progress. The runner should be as tired after these runs as they are after a hard workout, but in a slightly different way, more because of the time on their feet combined with a faster pace, rather than an all-out exhaustion.”
“The marathon is the only distance I believe you should not run the distance before the race costs [as in an increased chance of injury] do not outweigh the benefits,” he contends.
As far as the marathon goes, it is the only race distance where my long runs have gotten shorter over the years. Where I once ran 22 miles during MRT and multiple subsequent 20 mile runs, I now top out at 2 or 3 - 18 mile runs and am fine with that.
But there is no cookie cutter method to training regardless of the race distance. We each have to do what works for us individually both physically and mentally and mentally, I just do not want to run much longer than 2.5 hours under any circumstance unless it is the race.
As far as the marathon goes, it is the only race distance where my long runs have gotten shorter over the years. Where I once ran 22 miles during MRT and multiple subsequent 20 mile runs, I now top out at 2 or 3 - 18 mile runs and am fine with that. But there is no cookie cutter method to training regardless of the race distance. We each have to do what works for us individually both physically and mentally and mentally, I just do not want to run much longer than 2.5 hours under any circumstance unless it is the race.
This.
For half specific training, I will go to 15-16.
For my first marathon, I ran 22 and two 20 milers, and ran a 4:28 (and there was no blowing up, it was just slow). For my last marathon, I ran three 18 milers and ran a 3:23. I have noticed no difference in how I feel in a marathon in the last 10k if I have done 20 milers or not. I think it more comes down to overall mileage and long hard workouts (not long easy runs). For me anyway. Like LRB, I don't enjoy long runs.
Are we there, yet?
This is a rather narrow and confining view. Should ultra marathoners run the distance before their race?
To be serious, I don't think you need to run over distance for any race over the HM, and even that is questionable if your overall weekly base mileage is high enough. Do you really need to run over 13 if you have 2-3 double digit runs (10-12 miles each) during the week anyway with weekly averages over 50 mpw.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
When I started running (I assume this article was written for beginners as of course an intermediate-advanced runner will run runs longer than 3.1 miles training for a 5K) I naturally did some overdistance training. Maybe not enough. My first race was a 10K and I had a couple of 12K runs (my max then) preparing for it. When I prepared for the half, I ran a couple of 14 milers.
Even if I've only been running for 3 years, this article, as most articles in running magazines, is of little interest to me as it states very basic facts.
To me it seems obvious that you would want to run over distance for HM's and shorter races, but a lot of beginners do programs that only go to 10 ir 11 miles for their HM long runs. I've seen the difference in my races when I was running significantly beyond the distance vs. at the distance and wouldn't want to do any less than 14 or 15 for a HM. When I was returning from injury, I did a couple of races where my LR was only slightly beyond the distance of the race (i.e. 6 miles when I was doing a 5 mile race, or 10 miles when doing a 15k) and I really struggled at the end.
^ This. The title of this forum may have the word "Beginners" in it, but most people here are not true beginners, and the basic point of the article is probably pretty obvious to all here. My first thought was exactly what George pointed out - what, you're supposed to do >100 mile training runs for a 100 mile race? Can't imagine why the writer didn't just write "marathon and up"; probably assumed the reader could not fathom any longer distances. (Do I need to change my screen name to Grumpy Dave now?)
Anyway, I think the points made by LRB & onemile are more interesting - quality vs quantity. So far this is my first marathon cycle without a 20-miler. I may yet have one, but may not. I used to assume you had to have at least one, I think I had 3 last time. From seeing what a lot of the faster people do, I'm more interested now in killing my 16-18's. My weekly mileage may end up being less than the last cycle too.
Dave
I've seen them all, tried a few, now I just do my best and I don't care what others say.... There are a million theories and methods out there and many contradict each others. We should just do what makes sense for ourselves and our own particular circumstances.
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
Shit... I sound like I've been running for 40 years, but the truth is I'm still very much a noob. Sorry, George...
So far this is my first marathon cycle without a 20-miler.
That is remarkable considering how you have seemingly peeled hose things off with ease in the past. It's any wonder you haven't been besieged with withdrawals.
I think George is closing in on his fifth decade of running, while I will be lucky to run one. lol
If you count the 4 years in HS along with the time I've been running since I started again in 1968, I'm just into the start of my 6th decade at 51 years. I wonder, was happylily crawling yet when I started up again?
Please allow me to not answer this.
As far as my long runs making 20 and 22 do a lot for my self confidence so I don't want to give them up. For my current one the regret is not listening to my body enough as I started training too early compared to what I have done in the past.
It's kind of a leap of faith until you try it... it's easy to feel like you need them when everyone else is doing them. My first marathon without them I used Hansons and ended up running two 18 milers. I felt so good in the last 10k...negative split and all, I just didn't feel like I missed anything by not doing any 20's.
But if I was going to try to run 80mpw or something like Lily, I would probably do them just to get in a couple extra miles. And I ran a few when I used the McMillan plan, just to switch things up. But I don't feel like they are needed or even the best use of time.