Morning Crew
Legs were a bit tired but got in 7mi 8:50 avg.
What you got for today?
PRs:----- 5k: 17:48 (2019) 5M: 29:36 (2020) HM: 1:24:37 (2017) Scheduled: ???
Waltons ThreadLord
Morning, Jay, nice 7.
I wanted to stick to my plan of easing off a bit prior to next week's race and the formal start of my marathon training, but I still wanted to do some speed work. I didn't feel like just doing more 400s, so I ran a mini ladder of 400m-600-800-600-400 all at the same pace, with 400m jog after each. It was a beautiful, cool, clear morning and I ran at a different track than usual that is more sheltered from traffic. I heard more birdsong than commuters. Another plus is, unlike our town's track, this one is at slightly higher elevation than my house, so the run back home when I'm done is mostly down hill. :-)
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12
Warm&fuzzy
Good morning!
I rode 45 excellent miles this morning. I'm sure it didn't make my IT band better, but it didn't make it hurt. After a little more reading, I learned that cyclists are pretty familiar with IT band issues. I looked back through my log and did a little pondering, and decided it was simply overuse that caused the problem. I rode about 120 miles, and ran a lot of hard downhills, a couple of weekends ago. I'll rest the running until it doesn't make it hurt, but I'll pedal as much as I can in the meantime. Time will tell.
Have a great day!
Runner with a riding problem.
Morning! I have Pilates and that's it, unless I run a bit of miles on the TM, which I might.
Damaris
As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.
Fundraising Page
delicate flower
Done with Anchorage. Taking the scenic train for six hours followed by a 60 minute drive to location #2.
<3
Morning. RD for me. I'll probably ease back into it tomorrow. Calves are really tight, so I'll give them a break.
I checked and this next Sunday will be 16 weeks before my goal race. The race director for my goal marathon race was at the finish of the 50k, as the 2 RDs are friends, and I talked to him a bit. Turns out out there will be a 2:59 pacer and a 3:09 pacer. My performances this Spring have made me realize that sub3 is a dream more than a reality, so I'm starting to be comfortable with the idea that I'll go for a sub 3:10.
Morning. RD for me. I'll probably ease back into it tomorrow. Calves are really tight, so I'll give them a break. I checked and this next Sunday will be 16 weeks before my goal race. The race director for my goal marathon race was at the finish of the 50k, as the 2 RDs are friends, and I talked to him a bit. Turns out out there will be a 2:59 pacer and a 3:09 pacer. My performances this Spring have made me realize that sub3 is a dream more than a reality, so I'm starting to be comfortable with the idea that I'll go for a sub 3:10.
This brings to mind something I've been thinking about. My goal is to run this fall's marathon under 4:30, which would be a big improvement from the 4:47 of my last one. Based on recent races, various tools show I could run a 4:20 (many show even faster - 4:20 is the conservative one), so I'm using 4:20 as the basis for my training paces. I'll re-evaluate that when I do long pace runs later this year.
But here's my question: given that the almost universal advice is not to go out to fast, at what point in a marathon does one start to go for a faster time? For example, let's say I start my race at a pace that will get me my 4:30. How far should I go before I start thinking about 4:25? On the one hand, the longer you wait, the less you can reduce your time, but the sooner you start, the higher the risk of flaming out. Where's the tipping point? (Also, this will be my third marathon, so I won't have the kind of experience to let me say "well, I'm feeling good today" at mile 10.)
Go figure
Hey, good morning everyone.
Had a nice 8 miles last night. I really tried to focus on form to see if some of my knee aches are just from me being sloppy and not letting my quad catch enough of the impact. Funny enough, my knee felt pretty good...but the insertional pain I've been having on my opposite calf didn't seem to like my strict form haha. Oh well, I'll keep running and eventually get things sorted out. I kinda remember this sore and achy phase from my prior running life, and trust that it will pass this time just like it did then.
Jay...Nice workout yesterday. You can't beat a good, springy track. Good running today too.
Fred...Well done with the ladder - good choice for a change of pace. Downhill is definitely the way to go after a workout haha.
Pleasant...Sorry about the pain...hopefully you are right on the root cause and can get it turned around quickly.
Docket...What kind of treadmill do you have at home? I assume it must be a pretty good one with the miles you log on it?
Trying to find some more hay to restock the barn
Fred, I don't know the answer, but I've been wondering similar things about my goals this fall. I'll be interested to see what the others have to say.
7.5 miles run commute this morning. It was a cool 64 and breezy and nice out today. I'm enjoying it while I can, it's supposed to be in the 90s by the weekend.
I have a Sole F85. It sure is a good one with all the miles we put. We have had to change a bunch of things related to electric surges but that's a Miami issue. The only other thing that has needed change is the front and back rollers and that is minor (and still covered under warranty).
Fred, when they say not going out too fast means going out at the pace you can actually run the marathon at. You should start at the goal pace from the start, but if you crash after Mile 18, then the pace was too fast. You will have to decide based on your races and your training what pace you think you can hit and stick with that from mile 1.
This brings to mind something I've been thinking about. My goal is to run this fall's marathon under 4:30, which would be a big improvement from the 4:47 of my last one. Based on recent races, various tools show I could run a 4:20 (many show even faster - 4:20 is the conservative one), so I'm using 4:20 as the basis for my training paces. I'll re-evaluate that when I do long pace runs later this year. But here's my question: given that the almost universal advice is not to go out to fast, at what point in a marathon does one start to go for a faster time? For example, let's say I start my race at a pace that will get me my 4:30. How far should I go before I start thinking about 4:25 (for example)? On the one hand, the longer you wait, the less you can reduce your time, but the sooner you start, the higher the risk of flaming out. Where's the tipping point? (Also, this will be my third marathon, so I won't have the kind of experience to let me say "well, I'm feeling good today" at mile 10.)
But here's my question: given that the almost universal advice is not to go out to fast, at what point in a marathon does one start to go for a faster time? For example, let's say I start my race at a pace that will get me my 4:30. How far should I go before I start thinking about 4:25 (for example)? On the one hand, the longer you wait, the less you can reduce your time, but the sooner you start, the higher the risk of flaming out. Where's the tipping point? (Also, this will be my third marathon, so I won't have the kind of experience to let me say "well, I'm feeling good today" at mile 10.)
Just my experience...but don't go out too fast I tend to think of more as an admonition not to ruin your race in the first few miles. I always like my first mile to be my slowest in a marathon for this reason. It's so easy to get swept up in it all and run something 30sec to even a minute faster than you want to, which can hurt you. By mile 3 or so, I'm definitely hoping to be at goal pace.
If you're honestly talking about when to go, I'd say it's the last 10k. I know what I can meter out as far as effort for just 6 miles. You can say the same thing about 5k, if you want to be more conservative, but that's not going to change your time much.
The extreme of this is if you've really gone out conservatively or underestimated your fitness. I did this the first time I was trying to break 3:00. That number was so set in my head, that I ran on that goal pace for the first half. However, it felt really easy, and I knew I had a lot more in me. I just started to progressively tick faster miles. The good thing about just speeding up by 10-15 seconds a mile is that you can dial it back if you're starting to hurt, and you probably haven't cost yourself too much by trying the faster pace. I ended up splitting 1:30/1:25 in that race. Moral of the story - I think the half is probably the first point where you can really assess things because it's that, okay, can I do this exact same effort again moment? The next question is, okay, can I do it again but a little faster?
Like you said, experience plays a big part in it all. Look at your training and see how much "fade" you experience just in regular runs. If you always fade a little, then a negative split might not be the best strategy for you. If, on the other hand, you stay even or get stronger, then a negative split might be the ticket.
Fred, I have a very small experience in marathoning, but I have an idea what running a good marathon feels like. My first was a 8 second positive split, so pretty good.
I'd say the first half should feel pretty easy. Almost boring is how someone put it to me before my first. I would rather use comfortable.
With 10K to go, I felt strong and decided to pick up the pace. The last 5K were very hard, and I lost everything I had gained from the push at 10K. I still managed to do quite ok overall, but it was a gamble that, looking back, wasn't the best decision I could take at that time. I'm still happy I took the chance, though.
My point is that I don't think there's a specific recipe. It depends on how much energy you have left. You might go out at below your target pace but it might be all you have in you that day. So if you pick it up with 6 miles to to, you might find the last 3 miles very long.
Overall, a comfortable first half and waiting until 10K to pick it up, as SIAR suggested, is a good plan IMO. But gauging how much you have left in in tank is still very important. That is the very difficult part. Even for the elite probably.
Thanks for the info! The g/f will probably end up getting one this winter, so I figured you'd be a good one to ask. Did you run a marathon this weekend? Was there a race report? Did I miss something, or am I losing my mind due to work chaos?
I lost my rama
I'd say this. You really can't predict when a fade will start to set in and you really can't predict when you can take it up a notch. A lot of factors at play, so I'd say go out at goal race pace (based on your training and recent race results), and continually assess as you go. If you surprise yourself in the end, then that's the bonus!
If you look at the splits for the elites in majors, only the ones who place well have good splits. The others crash and burn like us mere mortals, some quite spectacularly.
Just one example (green = negative split, red = positive split)....
3/17 - NYC Half
4/28 - Big Sur Marathon DNS
6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour
8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours
Thanks for that chart, Bert-o, it's very informative.