Beginners and Beyond

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Long SLOW Run (Read 456 times)

MrNamtor


    So I tend to run fast in training and this is mostly because I like running fast but partly because I have this semi-unconscious belief that I should always be running fast. So basically I go hard in my training except for recovery. But I don't go easy as a way to best condition myself for running performance.

     

    Now I'm trying to change this (and other things) as it's starting to sink in that a lot of my workout should be long slow runs if I want to become a better runner. 

     

    .

    Yesterday I ran 12 miles, which is a little longer than my usual long run distance, at about a 12 mm pace. I usually run 10-11 miles at an 8-ish mm pace. so this was really slow for me. I had to consciously and regularly force myself to keep that pace or slow down to that pace.

     

    Anyway, the experience of running in the streets for over 2 hours at a slow pace is amazing. I was endorphing like crazy. I'll admit that I broke out into a faster run a few times just to bring down my endorphine level or whatever it was. But I could practically feel my capillary networks expanding.

     

    One thing I noticed is that running slower put more pressure on my calves and knees. I could actually feel it in my calves by the end of the run, and also felt a slight strain in my legs just directly below each kneecap.

     

    Running faster, I think you tend to use your quads more, and this takes a lot of the strain and workload off the calves. Run slower and not only do your calves work harder, but your feet tend to pound more downwardly, putting more pressure on the knees and shins.

     

    So to summarize it, I love the long slow run and I'm going to be seeing what it can do for my running. Love to hear the input of the forum.

    Docket_Rocket


      I don't about releasing more endorphins during slower runs than faster runs because I'm so slow all my runs look the same. Joking

       

      I like the slow runs.  They help me be more responsible and not overdo it most of the days of the week.  Thanks to my coach, I slowed down my easy runs and I'm even racing faster than before.

       

      The calves' soreness could be that you're changing your gait going from 8mm to 12mm.  I never feel any soreness after long slow runs.

      Damaris

       

      As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

      Fundraising Page


      delicate flower

        Running slower for longer periods of time will allow you to run faster for longer periods of time.  It's crazy but it works! 

        <3

        Nakedbabytoes


        levitation specialist

          My calves being sore is usually from a shorter stride change. I think you use your quads and upper legs more when you stride out ata faster pace. When I slow run, I try to just keep the same stride length, or close to it, but just slow it down. 

          Docket_Rocket


            Running slower for longer periods of time will allow you to run faster for longer periods of time.  It's crazy but it works! 

             

            I wonder where you got that from.... Big grin

            Damaris

             

            As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

            Fundraising Page

            happylily


              I'm with you, except for one thing: I don't believe in that wide a gap between your paces. For example, let's say my tempo is 7:20 pace and my MP is 8:00 pace. Based on that, my easy will be anywhere between 8:05 and 9:30, depending on how I feel that day, and that includes recovery pace as well. For ME, it works and it's also in accordance with the paces McMillan gives me to work with. I have long ago stopped running miles slower than 10:00 pace. Not because I don't want to, but I really do not need to. And if I really did, for some extraordinary reason ( like I'm sick, or I ran an ultra the day before), I'd take a day off instead of running too slow for ME.

               

              P.S. The paces were just examples. I have nothing against a 10:00 pace, or even a 12:00 pace...

              PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                      Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

              18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

              MrNamtor


                Running slower for longer periods of time will allow you to run faster for longer periods of time.  It's crazy but it works! 

                 

                But my understanding is that slow running conditions you for speed work and that's why it makes you faster, sort of indirectly. Supposedly running long slow distance without speedwork can actually make you slower.

                 

                You're running a lot of mileage now. What's your experience with this?

                MrNamtor


                  I'm with you, except for one thing: I don't believe in that wide a gap between your paces. For example, let's say my tempo is 7:20 pace and my MP is 8:00 pace. Based on that, my easy will be anywhere between 8:05 and 9:30, depending on how I feel that day, and that includes recovery pace as well. For ME, it works and it's also in accordance with the paces McMillan gives me to work with. I have long ago stopped running miles slower than 10:00 pace. Not because I don't want to, but I really do not need to. And if I really did, for some extraordinary reason ( like I'm sick, or I ran an ultra the day before), I'd take a day off instead of running too slow for ME.

                   

                  P.S. The paces were just examples. I have nothing against a 10:00 pace, or even a 12:00 pace...

                   

                   

                   

                  Do you think 12mm is too slow for me though?

                   

                  Edit:When I say i run fast that means 8 mm pace for 10+ miles. For me, that's fast, and pretty close to my "race pace" since my race pace and training pace have been almost the same till this point.

                  FlippyNoodle


                  Not a dude

                    Namtor, *I* don't even run a 12mm pace and I'm slower than you are. If your race pace is 8mm, I think 12mm is way too slow. I'm a noob, but from everything I have learned so far, you shouldn't be running all of your training runs at race pace, but adding in some race pace miles as part of a longer workout every now and then when you're training for a specific race is a good thing. Other than that, I've got nothin'.

                    Mr MattM


                      But my understanding is that slow running conditions you for speed work and that's why it makes you faster, sort of indirectly. Supposedly running long slow distance without speedwork can actually make you slower.

                       

                      You're running a lot of mileage now. What's your experience with this?

                       

                      Absolutely incorrect, but widely asserted.  Theoretically, if one had a significantly developed a large aerobic base + LT + VO2Max... and then just ran slow all the time... yeah, that runner might actually get slower.  That's not most runners.

                       

                      Also, it's more accurate to call it 'Long Steady Distance' as 'slow' is a relative term, and really not accurate.  You don't have to run slow.  You have to run easy enough that you can add more stress somewhat safely.

                       

                      In the 10 weeks leading up to my PR I ran 80+ mpw (up to well over 100) without logging a single mile at, or faster than, my goal MP.  I ran the majority of my miles at around 9:00-9:30 pace, with a few runs in the low-mid 7s.  On race day, I averaged 6:51 pace with pretty even 5km splits.

                       

                      Mileage is KING, and for most, you have to slow down to build up that kind of mileage base.  However, once you're there and adapted, the next logical step is to add in some uptempo work.

                      be curious; not judgmental

                      B-Plus


                        My training paces range from 6:40ish for tempo to slower than 9:30 for recovery runs. Strangely enough, my longest runs of the week are usually my fastest average paced runs for the week, since I often do fast finish. Take last weekend for example, where I started a 15-mile run at just under 9:00, and averaged 6:59 for the last 5 miles. I think if you do a search in the main forums there might be some good discussion on this topic.
                        happylily


                          Namtor, what race distance are we talking about? You mean that 8:00 pace is race pace for you for a 10 miler? Why don't you look at mcmillanrunning.com and see what paces it would spit out for you? I'd say easy LR is probably somewhere between 10:00 and 11:00... I'll go check now.

                          PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                  Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                          18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                          B-Plus


                            Never mind. Deleted post.
                            Docket_Rocket


                              Not under the new mcMillan. But I agree that his LSD should be between 10-11mm under your assumptions.

                               

                              Namtor, what race distance are we talking about? You mean that 8:00 pace is race pace for you for a 10 miler? Why don't you look at mcmillanrunning.com and see what paces it would spit out for you? I'd say easy LR is probably somewhere between 10:00 and 11:00... I'll go check now.

                              Damaris

                               

                              As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                              Fundraising Page

                              wcrunner2


                              Are we there, yet?

                                Absolutely incorrect, but widely asserted.  Theoretically, if one had a significantly developed a large aerobic base + LT + VO2Max... and then just ran slow all the time... yeah, that runner might actually get slower.  That's not most runners.

                                 

                                Also, it's more accurate to call it 'Long Steady Distance' as 'slow' is a relative term, and really not accurate.  You don't have to run slow.  You have to run easy enough that you can add more stress somewhat safely.

                                 

                                In the 10 weeks leading up to my PR I ran 80+ mpw (up to well over 100) without logging a single mile at, or faster than, my goal MP.  I ran the majority of my miles at around 9:00-9:30 pace, with a few runs in the low-mid 7s.  On race day, I averaged 6:51 pace with pretty even 5km splits.

                                 

                                Mileage is KING, and for most, you have to slow down to build up that kind of mileage base.  However, once you're there and adapted, the next logical step is to add in some uptempo work.

                                 

                                You're throwing in an added factor by specifying + LT + VO2Max - and then ran slow all the time. What about the person who always ran slow from the beginning, no LT, no VO2Max, no fartlek, no strides, just long slow miles?

                                 2024 Races:

                                      03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                      05/11 - D3 50K
                                      05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                                      06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                                 

                                 

                                     

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