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Daniels' Running Formula Third Edition question... (Read 100 times)

LRB


    Half marathon training is similar to marathon training (relatively speaking that is) in that the focus is less on the faster paces and shorter intervals and more on tempo pace and longer intervals.

     

    You could (and many have) use the 5 & 10k training plan and tweak it to run a half marathon, that way you are training for speed in the process of training for the race, with speed remaining the priority.

     

    At this point you have a ton of choices so you can do one of many things and still win.

    Jack K.


    uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

      Moth: I just mapped out week 1 and it looks a little bit like that.

      redrum: you try that plan and let me know how it goes!

      LRB


        Seriously, the Daniels' book is confusing sometimes.

         

        I'll go ahead and object to that your honor.  The answers are there, everything you need is there.  As a man much smarter about running than I once said; it's all there.

        Docket_Rocket


           

          I'll go ahead and object to that your honor.  The answers are there, everything you need is there.  As a man much smarter about running than I once said; it's all there.

           

          I understand what the book says, but it took a while!

          Damaris

           

          As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

          Fundraising Page

          Jack K.


          uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

            Half marathon training is similar to marathon training (relatively speaking that is) in that the focus is less on the faster paces and shorter intervals and more on tempo pace and longer intervals.

             

            You could (and many have) use the 5 & 10k training plan and tweak it to run a half marathon, that way you are training for speed in the process of training for the race, with speed remaining the priority.

             

            At this point you have a ton of choices so you can do one of many things and still win.

            I don't have the practice to start tweaking with them. I am working on a HM plan that will peak at 45-50mpw. I'm on week 2. We'll see...

            catwhoorg


            Labrat

              Last two years I just used the full plan (with a few adjustments to the longer runs in Phase IV) as my HM plan.

               

              That worked pretty awesomely.

              5K  20:23  (Vdot 48.7)   9/9/17

              10K  44:06  (Vdot 46.3)  3/11/17

              HM 1:33:48 (Vdot 48.6) 11/11/17

              FM 4:13:43 (Vdot 35.4) 3/4/18

               

              LRB


                 I understand what the book says, but it took a while!

                 

                Indeed.

                LRB


                  I don't have the practice to start tweaking with them. I am working on a HM plan that will peak at 45-50mpw. I'm on week 2. We'll see...

                   

                  Oh okay I misunderstood you, I thought you were doing 5k specific stuff.  Go kill it!

                  Cyberic


                    I need to read (buy) this book.

                    Jack K.


                    uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

                      I need to read (buy) this book.

                       

                      Buy a six pack when you get the book. It will help.

                      happylily


                        Good Lord... I'm too dumb and impatient to go through all of this. Good luck, Jack K.! 

                        PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                        18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                        wcrunner2


                        Are we there, yet?

                          Good Lord... I'm too dumb and impatient to go through all of this. Good luck, Jack K.! 

                          Keep doing what you've been doing. It works for you.

                           2024 Races:

                                03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                05/11 - D3 50K
                                05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                                06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                           

                           

                               

                          Awood_Runner


                          Smaller By The Day

                            Jack - It gets way easier, the more you work with it.  I used to go back to previous chapters constantly.  Now, its pretty easy, but I still have bookmarks for helpful pages.  You'll enjoy the flexibility eventually.  If something comes up, you don't have to miss a workout. You can adjust.  Don't be afraid to reread the book.  You'll find things you missed, or didn't grasp as well the first time.

                            Improvements

                            Weight 100 pounds lost

                            5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                            10K 48:59 April 2013

                            HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                            MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                            aerics


                              I'm not saying people aren't doing this but you really need to read the entire book for everything to make sense, once you do that it's pretty easy to follow. i have been coaching like since about 1997 but within the last year or so, i started using Daniels' VDOT formula and that has made my coaching way easier by not having to try to figure out everyone fitness level for the different types of workouts based on which energy system (aerobic conditioning, aerobic capacity, anaerobic conditioning, anaerobic capacity) i'm trying to work. BTW, has anyone been able to find the book OXYGEN POWER by Jack Daniels and Jimmy Gilbert? I have been looking for it and cannot find it anywhere.

                                I am bringing this topic back up since I am currently rethinking what to change going forward.

                                 

                                Background: I recently completed my very first HM after a 14 week preparation. Was not exactly couch to HM but maybe 15mpw to HM.

                                 

                                I ended up with patella tendonitis that I am currently trying to shake off. I am not running at all and doing strengthening stretching icing and resting to get over it. I am also going to see a doctor about this. Needles to say that I did too much to soon and this is why I ended up like this. I should have ran more easy and less quality miles...

                                 

                                I followed JDs 3rd edition and downloaded an excel spreadsheet that did all the calculations for me. I integrated the training schedule. I raced a 15k during phase 2 which I was not at all prepared for. I took that time to readjust my training paces. I used those intensities for my workouts. During the HM race I ended up running around 25sec per mile faster than the calculated goal pace.

                                 

                                So here is where I am a bit confused:

                                - I ran the rave about 5 minutes faster and felt absolutely ok afterwards (disregarding the PT issue which had been bothering me before);

                                - If I don't race during my preparation, the paces don't change at all;

                                - My training paces are now being derived from the last race which is the HM time. So the training plan and paces are geared towards repeating the last HM pace. But I would actually like to build up to a new PB. Its kind of a catch 22.

                                 

                                Seems like an odd problem. Does anyone have first hand experience with this? I don't want to screw up the JD plan which worked quite well for me.

                                HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                                 

                                2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

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