Beginners and Beyond

1

Strategy for racing a 15K?? (Read 65 times)

kristin10185


Skirt Runner

    So I have my first 15K next Saturday. I have not trained specifically for it, or thought much about it as I only registered yesterday. However, I am in the throes of half marathon training, and have done 5 runs of 9 miles or more, so I am not unprepared for the distance. The race has been on my radar, and I had planned on running it as a training run.

     

    However, the more I think about it, the more I kinnnnnda wanna race it. I have never raced anything higher than a 10K (I have done a 10M race but ran it as a training run) and I have my first half marathon in 2 months, so racing this 15K may be good practice and help me get a feel for where my pace is at for a longer race (do people agree?)...especially since my 5K pace and my 10K pace are a lot farther apart than McMillan predicts/people would expect (I have been shooting for sub-60 in a 10K for months, and despite my best efforts my PR remains at 1:04:45 vs my 5K PR at 28:16.....yeah, I know it doesn't make sense....I don't know why this sub-60 is so hard!)

     

    Based on my 5K PR McMillan gives me a pace of 9:45 minute miles for a 15K, based on my 10K PR it gives me a pace of 10:25 minute miles for a 15K. My plan (Running Wizard) seems to think by October 12th I will be able to run 9:41 minute miles for my half (I am not sure that is actually realistic....also training hasn't gone PERFECTLY as planned so far, so I am ok if that is not realistic).

     

    So, my question is.....how the heck do I strategize this 15K if I want to "race" it? What pace do I go out at? Or should I race it at all?

    PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

     

    I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

    wcrunner2


    Are we there, yet?

      My response as usual to this type of question is to run by perceived effort. That's a little bit slower than 10K pace but not as slow as HM pace. It's not much different from 10M pace. Conditions and course can have a major impact, especially in summer heat and humidity, so trying to pick a pace and adhere to that is a questionable strategy. Too bad it's an evening race. I have a 7M fartlek workout scheduled that I could have done while you were racing if it were a morning race, but I have to work Saturday evening.

       2024 Races:

            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

            05/11 - D3 50K
            05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

       

       

           

      kristin10185


      Skirt Runner

        Aww that would have been cool! Too bad you have to work. My issue is I don't really know what the perceived effort for a raced HM or 10M feels like (the HM in October will be my first and my 10M in June I felt under-prepared for so I ran the first 7 miles at easy pace) ....and my 10Ks have not gone as well as I think I am able to do. The only race distance that I have really truly raced all-out and been able to walk away saying I ran as fast and as hard as my body could handle is 5Ks. So it is really hard for me to know what "I am going to totally blow up if I keep this up" vs "this is way too slow for my fitness" feels like for a longer distance. Maybe this is good "practice" to find that out, though, before my half?

         

        My response as usual to this type of question is to run by perceived effort. That's a little bit slower than 10K pace but not as slow as HM pace. It's not much different from 10M pace. Conditions and course can have a major impact, especially in summer heat and humidity, so trying to pick a pace and adhere to that is a questionable strategy. Too bad it's an evening race. I have a 7M fartlek workout scheduled that I could have done while you were racing if it were a morning race, but I have to work Saturday evening.

        PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

         

        I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

        Love the Half


          I agree with running by perceived effort.  I would do one of two things.  Either start out at 10K effort for maybe the first half mile and then back off a notch or start out at HM effort for about the first half mile and then pick it up a bit.

           

          Edit:  We were posting at the same time.  Given that this isn't a goal race, don't worry about it if you blow up or if you end up feeling like you left a bunch of time on the course because you didn't push hard enough.  Chalk either up to a learning experience as getting it wrong and figuring out how to fix what we got wrong is how we learn most things in life.

          Short term goal: 17:59 5K

          Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

          Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

          meaghansketch


            I actually love 15Ks.  I think it is my favorite race distance.

             

            First, I want to address this:

             

            my 5K pace and my 10K pace are a lot farther apart than McMillan predicts/people would expect (I have been shooting for sub-60 in a 10K for months, and despite my best efforts my PR remains at 1:04:45 vs my 5K PR at 28:16.....yeah, I know it doesn't make sense....I don't know why this sub-60 is so hard!)

            Actually, this makes perfect sense, and is exactly what one would predict for a lower-mileage runner. The McMillan calculator assumes equally good/specific training for every race distance. For lower-mileage runners, it's very tough to have the endurance to have equally good training for a longer distance race. As your endurance gets better, the times should come more in line, though there are genetic/physical differences that play into things-- some people are just better at longer races, and some people are just better at shorter races.

             

            Also, shooting at a 10K PR for months means 'June to August' or "May to August', and quite frankly, there haven't been a lot of weekends in the past few months in the area we live that have really been  'PR' kind of weekends.

             

            Anyway, leaving that aside for a moment, how do you race a 15K?

             

            Obviously the best thing to do is to race 'by feel', but when you don't have a lot of racing experience, especially with longer races, that's not always possible-- you don't have a sense of what the feel should be.  I would describe it (like a lot of running paradoxes/oxymorons) as 'aggressively comfortable'.  It shouldn't feel exactly easy, but it should be approaching the upper end of your comfort zone.  It's not quite lactate threshold pace for the vast majority of us,

             

            One thing I like to do, especially before an HM, is go out slightly faster (~5-10 seconds, not a lot) than I want to run the HM.  So if you wanted to run the HM in 2:15 (a 10:15 pace) you could go out at 10:05-10:10 pace.  Hold on until 10K and pick it up in the last 5K if you have anything left.  This is good practice for the HM, the pace will feel a little more possible on the day of the HM if you've already done a 9-mile race faster.

             

            What pace to target is a tough question, and is going to come down a lot to conditions on the day of, and how aggressive/risky do you want to be.  It's OK to go in with a goal to hit the 10K mark at PR pace even if that means walking the last 3 miles.  It's OK to go out at what you feel 'HM pace' would be for you, to get practice at the pace, and to maybe enjoy the race a bit more, and have it be a bit more comfortable than if you were going all-out.  I think the answer's probably somewhere between 10:10 (cooler weather/flatter course) and 10:45 (warmer weather/ hillier course.)  I would lean towards the slower pace just because IIRC there's been some inconsistency with your training recently.

             

            My race strategy is always, with 15K, to divide the race up into thirds.  The first third (first 5K) is about not going out too fast.  Not an easy pace, but a pace that's not fast enough to sabotage the rest of the race.  The second third (5-10K) is about staying consistent, strong, relaxed.  The last 5K is about hanging on and giving all you've got.

             

            Best of luck!

            kristin10185


            Skirt Runner

              Wow.... great advice wcrunner, LTH, meghansketch! Glad I asked instead of just letting my ideas for the race just bounce around in my own inexperienced brain (during my 9 mile run today this was one of the primary things I was thinking of...)

               

              Meaghan- thank you....that is a really detailed response! Lots to consider. And yes, I had a little blip in training....2 weeks ago I took a week off because my knee wasn't feeling right, and this week I ran 3 times instead of my usual 4-5 because my Wednesday-Friday were so crazy with work stuff that I wasn't even really eating or sleeping, let alone able to spare time for a run. But now I am on vacation for 3 weeks, and then have a 2-day work week, so I don't anticipate any "life issues" getting in the way of running for awhile, as long as I stay uninjured. From what I hear from forumites who have run this 15K in the past (who I can't remember who they were an no one has responded to my post about it lol) the course is quite flat. Weather will be a crapshoot though considering it is 5pm (which sometimes can be the hottest time of the day) in mid-August.

               

              I just noticed your signature that you are running the Labor Day 10K on Roosevelt Island. I am registered as well Smile

              PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

               

              I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

              fourouta5


              Healed Hammy

                Kristin, I ran this last year, and woot, glad to see you signed up.  Not much time to respond right now, but you have me thinking that maybe I should run this race.  PM me or post here and I can give you all the details.

                 

                George

                kristin10185


                Skirt Runner

                  I thought it was you!!! I put a post up looking for who was running this....because I swore there was someone else other than liliacjive, and I thought it was you but couldn't remember!

                   

                  Kristin, I ran this last year, and woot, glad to see you signed up.  Not much time to respond right now, but you have me thinking that maybe I should run this race.  PM me or post here and I can give you all the details.

                   

                  George

                  PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

                   

                  I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

                  Awood_Runner


                  Smaller By The Day

                    I've never run a 15K, but in my first 10K I went in with the idea that I'd run it at or close to my 5K pace and see if I could hold on or if I'd blow up.  I actually held on.  At the time my 5K PR was 24:45, and a debut 10K of 48:59.  Heck, my next 5K was 24:11.  I think I still have a faster 5K in my.  Either that, or I am just way better at 10K's than I am 5K's.  I don't know, but I think you run better times when you accept that fact that it's okay to blow up late in the race.  I wouldn't want to do that all of the time, but I don't think it's the worst thing that can happen either.

                     

                    Then again, ask me again after my next HM.  I'm thinking about attacking that one with an, "Oh what the hell!?", attitude as well.

                    Improvements

                    Weight 100 pounds lost

                    5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

                    10K 48:59 April 2013

                    HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

                    MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

                    meaghansketch


                      Meaghan- thank you....that is a really detailed response! Lots to consider. And yes, I had a little blip in training....2 weeks ago I took a week off because my knee wasn't feeling right, and this week I ran 3 times instead of my usual 4-5 because my Wednesday-Friday were so crazy with work stuff that I wasn't even really eating or sleeping, let alone able to spare time for a run. But now I am on vacation for 3 weeks, and then have a 2-day work week, so I don't anticipate any "life issues" getting in the way of running for awhile, as long as I stay uninjured. From what I hear from forumites who have run this 15K in the past (who I can't remember who they were an no one has responded to my post about it lol) the course is quite flat. Weather will be a crapshoot though considering it is 5pm (which sometimes can be the hottest time of the day) in mid-August.

                       

                      I just noticed your signature that you are running the Labor Day 10K on Roosevelt Island. I am registered as well Smile

                       

                      I don't want you to think I'm being hard on you for a blip in your training-- we all have busy times at work or crazy times w/ life and it's often better to ease back on the running a bit than to stress out over getting every last planned mile in.

                       

                      Yes, I just recently signed up for the Labor Day 10K-- I realized my schedule called for a tuneup 10K that weekend, and I haven't yet been to Roosevelt Island to race, so it seemed like a good choice.  Plus I have a super-soft PR I am itching to break!  Let me know if you want to plan an FE!

                      kristin10185


                      Skirt Runner

                        Awesome! We should try to say hello before the race...I think Bluerun may be doing it too.

                         

                         

                        I don't want you to think I'm being hard on you for a blip in your training-- we all have busy times at work or crazy times w/ life and it's often better to ease back on the running a bit than to stress out over getting every last planned mile in.

                         

                        Yes, I just recently signed up for the Labor Day 10K-- I realized my schedule called for a tuneup 10K that weekend, and I haven't yet been to Roosevelt Island to race, so it seemed like a good choice.  Plus I have a super-soft PR I am itching to break!  Let me know if you want to plan an FE!

                        PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

                         

                        I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

                          Meghan - good post.

                           

                          Kristin -  This may not make sense, but I'll try.  You know what a hard 5K effort is like, where you're breathing heavily, *just* on the edge of not driving yourself into gasping for air territory.  At my first HM, I had good success with going as fast as I could while maintaining deep but regular breathing.  It's a balance, not nearly the FML feeling of a 5K, but still considerably faster than "hey, I could keep up this tempo for a few hours".

                           

                          The same sort of strategy might serve you well for a 15K.


                          No more marathons

                            Kristin - I'm on the other end of the aisle when it comes to "run by feel".  I know I'm always going to feel like going slower.  So I go into each race with at least an idea of the pace I want to hit and then using my GPS to try to stay with that pace as evenly as possible throughout.  For a 15K my goal is 30 to 35 seconds per mile slower than my 5K pace or 15 to 17 seconds off of my 10K pace.  With your wide differences between your race times, and given that this is a tune-up for your HM you may want to consider meaghansketch's advise about going out 5 to 10 seconds faster than your goal for the Half.

                            Boston 2014 - a 33 year journey

                            Lordy,  I hope there are tapes. 

                            He's a leaker!