Beginners and Beyond

12

How can you tell... (Read 408 times)


@runjerseygirl

    if you're running too fast, or if your natural pace has improved?  I've always considered my average pace to be around 11:00/mile.  Today, I ran a very comfortable 10:15/mile for 3 miles.  I was surprised I felt as well as I did, and was really trying to take it easy because of my race on Saturday.  Some days I feel really good at this pace, and others I feel like I never ran before in my life.  I just was wondering what your experiences have been as your pace has improved.

    Do you even run?


    sugnim

      You might try checking in with your breathing.  If it is labored, and you are gasping for air, then you are running hard.  If it is easy, then you are probably running at an easy pace.  You could try counting your steps per breath.  If there are 4 steps per breath, you are running very easy, 3 steps per breath, you are running at a moderate pace, 2 steps per breath, you are going at a fast pace.  If there is 1 step per breath, you might want to slow down, IMHO.


      Bad Ass

        I use my HR as an indication.  For example, when I started my last marathon training, I would run close to 12mm with 147 HR.  At the end I was doing 11mm at 142.  So there was definitely less effort with the better pace, especially since the 12mm was in 80F and the 11mm were at 96F.

         

        So effort is one way to figure it out, but HR if you run with a HRM.  It's nice to see data weeks later and compare.

        Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

        Next:  RnR Country Music Half Marathon

        Blog

        "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

          Your easy pace should be, well, easy but not quite as slow as a jog.  I have always been a proponent of running by effort rather than by prescribed paces.  You should never, ever, no matter the length of the run, be struggling aerobically.  A very long run even at an easy pace is quite fatiguing but it is muscular fatigue rather than aerobic fatigue.  Contrast that to a VO2max workout when you start to fatigue aerobically within a minute or two.

          Short term goal: 17:59 5K

          Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

          Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

            I have problems with this all the time, and usually it’s a matter of energy/effort. On days that I’m feeling better/more awake, easy pace is faster than other days, but I’m definitely pushing harder, but it’s just easier to push harder without being grumpy about it. It also depends on what other workouts I’ve done during the week, how much sleep I’ve had, how many cups of coffee I had to drink, what I’ve eaten, etc. 


            Smashy!!!

              Breathing and perceived effort. You should be able to carry a comfortable conversation, including laughing, while running at an easy pace. 

              PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


              Mmmmm...beer

                I run by effort as well.  Almost all of my runs are just at whatever pace feels comfortable.  Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slower.  But so long as I don't have to push to maintain the pace, then I call it easy.  My easy pace has dropped by about 3:00/mile as my running has increased. 

                -Dave

                 

                2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-1:26 HM | BQ done!


                Wandering Wally

                  Just to add to what everyone else has said:  It's completely normal for that perceived effort to change.  Some days it's effortless, some it's not.  There's a lot of reasons for that but hydration, diet, sleep, illness, allergies, and stress can all play a part.  I wish we could bottle those effortless runs and get it out when we're struggling.

                  Run!  Just Run!

                   

                  Trail Runner Nation Podcast


                  Has Broken Parts

                    Pace has been a struggle for me too. Like others here, I run by perceived effort but I do keep an eye on my splits.  Often I'm surprised by my speed.  Either I'm going faster or slower than I feel like I'm running.

                     

                    Aside from the things mentioned by others is rest.  If you've been cutting back your mileage to prepare for a race, then it's not surprising that your "easy" pace is faster today than it is when you are running more.

                     "Address the process rather than the outcome.
                    Then, the outcome becomes more likely." - Robert Fripp

                      Breathing and perceived effort. You should be able to carry a comfortable conversation, including laughing, while running at an easy pace. 

                       

                      This is one of those things I disagree with.  I think too many people end up running their easy runs as recovery jogs.  From a health perspective, that's perfectly acceptable and, if the new studies are accurate and I think they probably are, better for you over the long term.  If your objective is to run faster, then you need to do your easy runs, as Ryan Hall put it, "easy but not too easy."  I think the "laughing and joking" effort is "too easy."  Anywho, here is my take on paces.

                       

                      Recovery jog - You should be able to talk in sentences.  You should feel throughout the run that you are holding back.

                       

                      Easy run - You should be able to talk in sentences but you should have to catch your breath for a few steps in between.  These are your staple runs and should constitute about 80% of your total mileage.

                       

                      Marathon pace run - This is a "stretching out the legs" effort.  You shouldn't feel fatigued before five miles but if you're not fatigued by eight, you're doing it wrong.  If you were talking, you'd be able to get out short phrases and you'd need a bit of recovery between phrases.

                       

                      Tempo run - This is no longer just "stretching out the legs."  Now you are pushing the pace the whole time.  About the only thing you'll have energy to say is to yell "screw you" at the driver who nearly ran you off the road and you'll quickly regret wasting the energy on that effort.

                       

                      VO2max intervals - Hard.  Just hard.  Your focus should be on sucking in as much O2 as you possibly can.  Talking is the farthest thing from your mind.

                       

                      Speed Reps - These aren't so much hard as they are fast.  You have to concentrate to run this fast.  All of your focus should be on maintaining good form and running these at the right pace.  

                      Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                      Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                      Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).


                      @runjerseygirl

                        This is one of those things I disagree with.  I think too many people end up running their easy runs as recovery jogs.  From a health perspective, that's perfectly acceptable and, if the new studies are accurate and I think they probably are, better for you over the long term.  If your objective is to run faster, then you need to do your easy runs, as Ryan Hall put it, "easy but not too easy."  I think the "laughing and joking" effort is "too easy."  Anywho, here is my take on paces.

                         

                        Recovery jog - You should be able to talk in sentences.  You should feel throughout the run that you are holding back.

                         

                        Easy run - You should be able to talk in sentences but you should have to catch your breath for a few steps in between.  These are your staple runs and should constitute about 80% of your total mileage.

                         

                        Marathon pace run - This is a "stretching out the legs" effort.  You shouldn't feel fatigued before five miles but if you're not fatigued by eight, you're doing it wrong.  If you were talking, you'd be able to get out short phrases and you'd need a bit of recovery between phrases.

                         

                        Tempo run - This is no longer just "stretching out the legs."  Now you are pushing the pace the whole time.  About the only thing you'll have energy to say is to yell "screw you" at the driver who nearly ran you off the road and you'll quickly regret wasting the energy on that effort.

                         

                        VO2max intervals - Hard.  Just hard.  Your focus should be on sucking in as much O2 as you possibly can.  Talking is the farthest thing from your mind.

                         

                        Speed Reps - These aren't so much hard as they are fast.  You have to concentrate to run this fast.  All of your focus should be on maintaining good form and running these at the right pace.  

                         

                        Immensely helpful!  Thank you so much!

                         

                        So basically, if I'm running a 10:15 mile, and can still carry a conversation, then I'm doing it right.  And if I'm running 11:00 mile and don't feel like I need to catch my breath after a few sentences, then it's safe to pick up the pace.  Am I understanding this right?

                        Do you even run?


                        Muddling through

                          Immensely helpful!  Thank you so much!

                           

                          So basically, if I'm running a 10:15 mile, and can still carry a conversation, then I'm doing it right.  And if I'm running 11:00 mile and don't feel like I need to catch my breath after a few sentences, then it's safe to pick up the pace.  Am I understanding this right?

                           

                          If all you're paying attention to is your breathing, that's right, but there's more to easy effort (or other efforts) than just breathing. HR is one way to measure that, but it has it's own drawbacks because of the many factors that can affect it as well as the difficulty in determining an accurate value for maxHR. You also need to pay attention to the actual effort. How do your legs feel? How much of an effort is it to run that pace? 11:00 minute pace may take a moderate effort one day but an easy effort another depending on residual fatigue, but your breathing may not differ noticeably.

                           

                          The talk test has its own drawbacks. Pretty much not a single one of LTH's tests apply to me. His easy run test is more like my tempo run or cruise interval test. I can also talk in short phrases during VO2Max intervals. Heck, I even chat with other runners during 5Ks and have been known to offer a word of encouragement in 800m and mile races;.

                          2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

                          cmb4314


                            For me, it's effort.  I feel it mostly in my breathing - mostly that if I'm thinking about it too much, I'm probably running too fast.  When I think about it, I'm usually breathing 3-4 steps in, 3-4 steps out on an easy run.  And this is only if I'm breathing like that totally naturally - because if I'm really stubborn about it, I can run way too fast for an easy run and still breathe 3 in, 3 out, but only because I'm sitting there thinking about it, counting the duration of each breath, and actively trying to take the deepest breaths I can.  Just because I can still maintain that breathing pattern does not mean necessarily that I am running easy enough.

                             

                            Pace depends on what type of runs I've done recently, how I slept, what I ate, what time of day it is, whether I'm on the treadmill or outside, weather, and probably a million other stupid factors.  "Easy" for me usually falls in the realm of 9:45-10:30, depending on all of these.  

                             

                             

                            Marathon pace run - This is a "stretching out the legs" effort.  You shouldn't feel fatigued before five miles but if you're not fatigued by eight, you're doing it wrong.  If you were talking, you'd be able to get out short phrases and you'd need a bit of recovery between phrases.

                             

                            I'm glad to read this.  I did a 16 with 10 at MP a few weeks back, and halfway through the MP portion was feeling pretty darned good, and was actually finding it easy to go a little bit faster than I had intended if I didn't purposely rein it in a bit, but by the end I was getting pretty tired.  Not excessively so - I could have kept going at that pace if I'd wanted to, but was definitely feeling the cumulative MP miles by that point.  My husband started after me and caught me right near the end, and I could get out stunted conversation for the last half mile or so while he ran next to me.  Here's hoping that MP feels even easier once I finish training and taper.

                            My wildly inconsistent PRs:

                            5k: 24:36 (10/20/12)  

                            10k: 52:01 (4/28/12)  

                            HM: 1:50:09 (10/27/12)

                            Marathon: 4:19:11 (10/2/2011) 

                            Luke79


                              I run by effort as well.  Almost all of my runs are just at whatever pace feels comfortable.  Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slower.  But so long as I don't have to push to maintain the pace, then I call it easy.  My easy pace has dropped by about 3:00/mile as my running has increased. 

                               

                              Pretty much this for me as well.  I can't stand to run EASY easy so I run at a comfortable pace most of the time, but not where I feel like I'm holding back.  I would be better off speed walking than doing that.  I can actually walk pretty fucking fast though o.O

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              scottydawg


                              Barking Mad To Run

                                No advice, sorry, cuz I NEVER have that situation! Joking

                                "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Roosevelt

                                12