Beginners and Beyond

Let's talk fuel during runs/races (Read 113 times)

kristin10185


Skirt Runner

    So I mentioned on both the Penguins and other Dailies threads this morning that yesterday I tried my first GU ever (salted caramel and it was magically delicious!) at mile 6 of my 11 mile LR yesterday and it had this general effect:

     

    Before GU:

     

    After GU:

     

    Made me wonder why I never tried this amazing thing before!!! It got people on both threads talking about preferred fuel, and I realized how little I know about this subject as a total fuel noob, so I decided to just start a thread about it to keep the topic going!

     

    So, 2 questions for everyone:

     

    #1: At this point I am sticking to the fuel I have tried, but for the future, what are your favorite types of mid-run fuel options, and why?

     

    And the next one is more advice for me.....So, the plan I was using to train for my first half marathon on October 12th discourages any type of carb replacement on long runs even Gatorade....something about training your body to metabolize its own fat for fuel. I like that idea, because I like my body metabolizing it's fat, and also because I don't want to rely on "needing" extra fuel. It does, however, allow for using it on race day for the extra "oomph." So although I completed most of my training runs fuel-less, I have been occasionally experimenting with some fuel as not to "try anything new on race day." So far I have tried pink energy beans, and the salted caramel GU. I have never taken Gatorade on solo runs, but had some on the course during a 10 mile race and 15K race. None of these things upset my stomach, thankfully.

    So Question #2: How should I approach fueling during my half? I have this rough plan, please critique it:

    Water Station 1: 3 miles- water and a few energy beans

    Water Station 2: 5 miles- Gatorade

    Water Station 3: 6 miles- skip it unless I am really thirsty, if so just water

    Water Station 4: 7.5 miles- water and GU

    Water Station 5: 9 miles- Gatorade

    Water Station 6: 10.5 miles- water and energy beans

    Water Station 7: 12 miles- Gatorade

    PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

     

    I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

    Jack K.


    uʍop ǝpᴉsdn sǝʇᴉɹʍ ʇI

      What have you been doing during training? If it is a cool day you likely won't need to make all those stops. To me, your plan seems excessive, but if it works for you, then go for it. It also depends on how long your race will take. As you run more and train for more HMs, I bet you will need less and less fuel along the way. If it is a cool day I can race a HM with no fuel stops, though I carry a few Clif shot blocks in my pocket.  Best of luck to you.

      kristin10185


      Skirt Runner

        What have you been doing during training? If it is a cool day you likely won't need to make all those stops. To me, your plan seems excessive, but if it works for you, then go for it. It also depends on how long your race will take. As you run more and train for more HMs, I bet you will need less and less fuel along the way. If it is a cool day I can race a HM with no fuel stops, though I carry a few Clif shot blocks in my pocket.  Best of luck to you.

         

        During training I have been mostly doing only water, as my plan told me not to have carbs during training only races except for the few runs where I tried some fueling as practice to see if my stomach could handle it. During races I have a really hard time passing up a water stop. This is why I am asking, because I have no idea what is normal, excessive, or too little, as I have never run a half, and taken fuel during a run less than a handful of times.

        PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

         

        I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

        Docket_Rocket


          Whenever I race, I choose between Gatorade or gels, as Gatorade is gels in liquid form, so I agree with Jack that the plan seems a bit excessive in that regard.  I would only do a gel at Miles 5 and 10 and the rest water.  Although one gel might be enough, you will not feel like your first picture if you fuel prior to feeling tired, so every 5 miles will help.

          Damaris

           

          As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

          Fundraising Page

          meaghansketch


            This is certainly a topic with a variety of different opinions, so I don't think there's any one 'right' answer to any of your questions.  It's just a question of what works for you, and experimenting to find out what that is.

             

            Regarding the use of fuel in training: Be sure to know -why- you want to be training your body to burn fat over glycogen.  It's most important for people doing long races (20 miles+) because your body has a limited amount of glycogen that it can store, but all bodies have enough fat to basically run for an almost unlimited amount of time.  There's a couple different theories, as you've heard, and I kind of take a middle of the road approach.  I do my shorter runs (up to around 12 miles) without fuel during the run, and usually without breakfast.  For my longer runs I take gels and have breakfast beforehand.  This was something I built up to, though-- when I started running I would take them on runs of 8 or 9 miles.  A short run for one person isn't a short run for another, and duration should be taken into account as well as miles.

             

            Regarding types of fuel-- my favorite is the Cliff shotblocks, but they have given me some GI issues (infrequently) in the past, so I don't only rely on them.  For important runs and races I use the Powerbar gels, which have worked well for me in the past.  I like the fruity flavors and I tolerate caffeine well (and find it gives a bit of a performance boost in races) so I usually alternate the tangerine and green apple flavors, which both have caffeine.  For races I take about 1 per hour, for long runs slightly less frequently-- this weekend I took one at mile 11 and one at mile 17.

             

            Regarding your race-- my basic fuel approach at races is that I have a plan for where I take my gel(s) but don't have a plan for gatorade.  So I'll plan to take a gel at mile 5 and 10, or 6 and 12, and at water stations if gatorade is offered I make a decision based on how I'm feeling.  Some times I will want gatorade, sometimes I will want water, I just choose based on how I'm feeling in the moment.  I find that having a lot of gatorade while racing tends to make me a bit nauseous.

             

            (yes, I overthink lots of things).

             

            I just finished reading Matt Fitzgerald's book on this subject-- it's called The New Rules of Marathon and Half-Marathon Nutrition.  It covers everything from what to eat during training to carb loading to how to fuel during races.  I'm going to be trying out a couple of the things he suggests (namely a caffeine fast and a fat-load which precedes the carb-load) before my next HM, to know whether to use them leading up to my next marathon.

            slowrunningjulie


              I don't have a lot of substance to add, just - salted caramel GU?!/!? Where does one acquire such a glorious substance?

              Upcoming:

               

              July 27 - San Francisco marathon

              Docket_Rocket


                I don't have a lot of substance to add, just - salted caramel GU?!/!? Where does one acquire such a glorious substance?

                 

                runningwarehouse.com

                 

                And it's 10 times better than the Peanut Butter Gu.  My only worry is that it has caffeine and I've had some issues with that, but so far, so good.  And it's OH SO GOOD!

                Damaris

                 

                As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                Fundraising Page

                kristin10185


                Skirt Runner

                  I over-think absolutely everything if you haven't noticed Smile and I need plans. Training plans, race plans, all kinds of plans! I am ok with editing plans on the fly based on how I feel, but I like to have an idea of what I am going to do during races, from pacing to water stops, ect. Having a plan helps me calm down and stress less. The plan may or may not go out the window, but once I have one and am comfortable with it, I stop thinking about it and can just chill and enjoy and go with the flow. If I have in my mind when I will take a GU, ect then I can stop worrying about it.

                  PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

                   

                  I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

                  happylily


                    Kristin, you do what will motivate you and that is different for everyone.  If the thought of fuelling keeps you mentally strong, then great. But your body doesn't really need all that attention during a half-marathon. I ran a half last Sunday, it was 50F, perfect weather. No GU, no gatorade, no water. Even splits and I finished the last miles at the same pace I started. Fuelling only becomes important in a marathon. Hydration in a half-marathon depends mostly on the weather.

                    PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                            Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                    18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010


                    Hip Redux

                      This is such a personal thing.  You really do have to experiment during training and find out what works and then stick to that during the race.  Trying to pre-plan without experimentation is basically just a wild ass guess. lol

                       

                      As far as trying to train your body to burn fat more than carbs - the reality is for a race, your goal is to run your best.  For any individual, that may mean you take in carbs during a run, while others they may not need it.   Trying to train your body to do one thing over another is great in concept, except that we are all individuals and if not taking in a carb source during a run means you feel like hell  - what's the point?    As you get more experienced and have more mileage under your belt, your body's needs will change, undoubtedly.  So for now, if you feel better after taking in a Gu, then do that.     Just IMO.  Don't over think it.

                       

                      Also - energy beans are a PITA to try to eat while running lol

                       


                      Hip Redux

                        Kristin, you do what will motivate you and that is different for everyone.  If the thought of fuelling keeps you mentally strong, then great. But your body doesn't really need all that attention during a half-marathon. I ran a half last Sunday, it was 50F, perfect weather. No GU, no gatorade, no water. Even splits and I finished the last miles at the same pace I started. Fuelling only becomes important in a marathon. Hydration in a half-marathon depends mostly on the weather.

                         

                        But - she's never run a half before.  If she's going to be out there for two hours+, I think she'll need something (though likely not everything she has listed).   If running a HM under two hours, that may be the case.     But just because it works for superhuman Happylily does not mean it'll work for others!

                         

                        I know there's no way I could have made it through either of my HMs without water and at least a carb shot of something.

                         

                        wcrunner2


                        Are we there, yet?

                          So far I've found I can eat almost anything so I lean towards real food. I haven't tried gels, but Clif Shot Bloks are okay. For fluids I prefer lemon-lime Gatorade or water, but if Coke, preferably at least partially defizzed, is available at races I'll switch to that for variety. My biggest problem so far has been learning to eat enough.

                           2024 Races:

                                03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                05/11 - D3 50K
                                05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                                06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                           

                           

                               


                          Jess runs for bacon

                            Kristin, you do what will motivate you and that is different for everyone.  If the thought of fuelling keeps you mentally strong, then great. But your body doesn't really need all that attention during a half-marathon. I ran a half last Sunday, it was 50F, perfect weather. No GU, no gatorade, no water. Even splits and I finished the last miles at the same pace I started. Fuelling only becomes important in a marathon. Hydration in a half-marathon depends mostly on the weather.

                             

                            I think it helps you are crazy fast Smile I can run a half with no fuel, but being out there for the better part of three hours it really helps to eat something. I use Honey stinger gummies, but looking to switch to something with more caffeine (shot bloks are too much of a PITA to eat while running).

                            happylily


                               

                              But - she's never run a half before.  If she's going to be out there for two hours+, I think she'll need something (though likely not everything she has listed).   If running a HM under two hours, that may be the case.     But just because it works for superhuman Happylily does not mean it'll work for others!

                               

                              I know there's no way I could have made it through either of my HMs without water and at least a carb shot of something.

                               

                              I ran slow as a snail last Sunday. Not superhuman. Big grin What I wonder is how much is mental and how much is our body really needing the fuel for runs that are 13 miles and less. But I agree with the fact that the longer we are out there, the more we'll need the fuel, so maybe you are right that for her first, a gel would help. But two? I think two would be purely mental support. Also, the fuelling goes by weight. Women don't require as much as men in general.

                              PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                      Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                              18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                                My first 10K, which I correctly expected to take me well over an hour, I brought a couple Hersey's miniatures with me.  I ate one each at the 1.5 and 3 mile water stops.  Were they more difficult to chew than expected?  Yes.  Did I "need" them to complete the race?  Probably not.  Did I get a huge psychological boost about my ability to finish the race by giving my body a little extra sugar and caffeine?  Damn straight.

                                 

                                I would say the same principle applies to a first half.  The only wrong way to fuel is the one that upsets your stomach, and I would worry a bit about that with mixing three different carb sources you've only ever had separately.  But other than that, trust your gut about what feels right for you.  And HAVE FUN!