In most books I read, the taper is 3 weeks, in which you gradually reduce volume, but not intensity.
When I look at the Hansons plan, however, I don't see a three week taper. More of a 10 day taper (except no long runs in the last 3 weeks, yippee). So I googled "hansons taper" and hit this small training talk by Luke Humphrey (who wrote the Hansons book) https://hansonscoachingservices.com/tapering/ who essentially says to read this paper by Steve Magness called "Why tapering can be a dangerous thing" .
I think the bros probably know their stuff. But I also think Daniels and Pfitz probably know their stuff too.
What's your take on this? What do you do? What do you think?
I've done the Hansons taper twice. The first time it worked great and I felt awesome on race day. The second time it wasn't enough. I never felt good. But I had added miles to the plan and went into taper pretty worn out and tired.
My last 2 have been a 2 week taper and that is my preference. 3 weeks is too much.
Add me on the two week taper as well as a preference. Three weeks is too long. But the truth is that I usually end up doing a 10 day taper, because I try to catch up on special workouts I might have missed the previous weeks. Because of this, I probably ran many of my marathons too tired for my own good.
PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013
Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013
18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010
I always take two weeks of taper. Three is too long, as Lily has said.
Damaris
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Gracias, chicas. That's pretty much what I will do if I follow the Hansons program.
A friend of mine did the Hansons plan for her first this past spring, and by the time she got to the taper, really felt like she needed the consistency of continuing to run. So she did the taper by the book. And she rocked her marathon. Seriously, fresh legs through to the finish and she finished speeding up.
Are we there, yet?
10-14 day taper is good. I think the 3 week taper developed from the quickie 16 week training programs that built mileage very quickly, often adding or increasing speed workouts at the same time, e.g. Higdon. If you go into marathon training with a good base, rather than trying to build your base all the way up to 3 weeks before the race, 2 weeks should work fine.
2024 Races:
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K 05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour
06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Is this the beginning of taper madness? That shit is real you know.
I prefer the taper program where you injure yourself 9 days before the race, then take a full week off before race day. You're welcome.
Anyway, taper is such a personal thing, and so dependent on a variety of factors, it's hard to say what's best. And I'm too lazy to compare them side by side, but I wonder how different any of the plans really are. Hansons supposedly has a 10-day taper, but I think it still more or less peaks 3 weeks out; LR distance & interval intensity both decline after that. I'm on a Hansons-ish schedule, and my body kind of feels like it's tapering this week, 3 weeks out. Even though I will end up around 60 miles, including the normal Tues-Thurs quality workouts. Of course my 3 previous weeks were 68-69-70; just the tiniest reduction in mileage and/or intensity seems to make such a big difference, both mentally & physically.
I also like the idea of keeping the MP workouts late into the cycle. To me those are all about training your body to know what MP feels like, I'd hate to go into the race too far removed from one of those.
Dave
Hansons supposedly has a 10-day taper, but I think it still more or less peaks 3 weeks out; LR distance & interval intensity both decline after that.
Unless injured (), my highest mileage week and longest long run is usually 4 weeks out. my longest MP run is 3. I have another decent MP run 2 weeks out then start the fattening process.
Incidentally, I did a 3 week taper for my first marathon and it worked great. Of course mere seconds separated my marathon pace and easy pace, so the length of the taper did not matter as much because nearly all of my runs were at or around MP.
My last 20 is two weeks before the race. It has always been like that with my coach.
Hansons supposedly has a 10-day taper, but I think it still more or less peaks 3 weeks out; LR distance & interval intensity both decline after that. I'm on a Hansons-ish schedule, and my body kind of feels like it's tapering this week, 3 weeks out. Even though I will end up around 60 miles, including the normal Tues-Thurs quality workouts. Of course my 3 previous weeks were 68-69-70; just the tiniest reduction in mileage and/or intensity seems to make such a big difference, both mentally & physically.
It does peak 3 weeks out (there's three weeks to go after that week). It is the last long run week combined with the first 10 mile MP run week.
Then there's two weeks with a 6 mile at a MP - 10 clip Tuesday, and a 10 mile at MP Thursday, 55-56 miles total, no long run. You can call those weeks taper or not. If you do, then the taper is three weeks. If you don't consider that taper giving the two hard workouts per week, then it's a 10 day taper because after that last Thursday MP run, there's 10 days of easy running left until M-Day.
Didn't read the article and haven't used Hanson. That said I found a 10 day taper works best for *me*. Specifically, my highest mileage is at the beginning of my schedule and peak mileage is roughly 5 weeks out, which isn't uncommon among advanced runners. Some might mistake this as "tapering" but my toughest workouts are in the last 5 weeks with my "Max workout" is three weeks out.
Example: Last 8 weeks before goal race...
Week 35: 85 milesMonday: SRDTuesday: 6 miles 53:42 - 8:56 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 7 miles 1:02:25 - 8:55 avg. pace - easy + 3xshort hill sprints P.M. Butt was dragging and after 2000m @ steady state pace [7:33] aborted my scheduled interval workout..Wednesday: 9 miles 1:14:15 - 8:14 avg. pace - 3x2000m @ 7:30 pace w3x600m recovery @ 7:57 pace. 4.65 continuous miles @ 7:35 pace. 5 sec./mile slower than projected for my 14k race pace [2000m portion] but I'll take it. A.M. / 8 miles 1:16:30 - 9:33 avg. pace - hilly trail + form drills P.M. Thursday: 6 miles 49:37 - 8:15 avg. pace - moderate last 4 miles sub-8Friday: 10 miles 1:27:45 - 8:32 avg. pace - easy Saturday: 10 miles 1:28:42 - 8:52 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 4 miles @ 4.4 mph recovery / XT [reverse leg press / form drills] P.M.Sunday: 15 miles 2:17:50 - 9:11 avg. pace - after 7 mile warm up 4x400m @ 6:42 pace w/400m jog - 3:00 jog - 20:00 @ 7:56 pace - 3:00 jog - 4x200m hill sprints @ 6:22 pace w/200 jog - last mile fast mile A.M. / 10 miles 1:44:10 -10:25 avg. pace - recovery on hilly trail P.M. Week 36: 81 milesMonday: SRDTuesday: 10 miles 1:29:35 - 8:57 avg. pace - 2x20:00 @ 7:51 pace w/ 2:00 jog recovery + strides & form drills. That's twice I've bombed my tempo runs in the early morning! I can't believe that I was running this slow. In the last mile I got down to my goal pace but man, what a kick in the shorts. Shakes head. Things have to get better from here!Wednesday: 6 miles 49:12 - 8:12 avg. pace - rhythm run: 5 miles @ 8:01 pace [last mile 7:25] + 6xstrides A.M. / 3 miles 3x200m @ 9.0 - 10.0 mph / XT / A.M. / 8 miles 1:20:07 - 10:01 avg. pace - easy w/hill sprints on trail P.M. Thursday: 10 miles 1:24:19 - 8:26 avg. pace - rhythm run last 5 miles - 7:56 paceFriday: 4 miles 36:53 - 9:13 avg. pace - recovery A.M. / 6 miles 57:06 - 9:31 avg. pace - easy 4x200m hill sprints @ 5:39 pace w/5:00 recovery P.M.Saturday: 14 miles 1:59:42 - 8:33 avg. pace - after 7 mile warm up 20:00 @ HM - 10k pace avg. 7:33 pace and for good measure ran my last mile @ 7:37. Switched my easy run for Sunday's specific endurance workout. Ok, off to a family birthday party.Sunday: 10 miles 1:24:55 - 8:29 avg. pace - last 10:00 @ 7:25 pace A.M. / 10 miles 1:33:24 - 9:20 avg. pace - easy on hillytrail. Feeling Strong. P.M. Week 37: 80 milesMonday: SRDTuesday: 11 miles 1:34:56 - 8:37 avg. pace - 2x3000m lactate-clearing intervals @ 7:20 pace w/600m recovery @ 7:57 pace - 6600m continuous @ 7:24 pace A.M. / I'm happy with this - 7:16 pace the 2nd 3000m repeat A.M. / 3 miles @ 4.4 mph / XT reverse leg press / P.M. Wednesday: 8 miles 1:09:12 - 8:39 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 7 miles 1:06:09 - 9:27 avg. pace - easy hilly trail P.M.Thursday: 10 miles 1:29:20 - 8:56 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 6 miiles 55:06 - 9:11 avg. pace - easy + 4x200m hill sprints @ 5:36 pace P.M.Friday: 8 miles 1:10:08 - 8:46 avg. pace - easy. Saturday: 11 miles 1:28:18 - 8:01 avg. pace - 5 mile tempo @ 7:15 pace + 2x400m @ 6:14 pace w/400m jog. Pleased the pace felt comfortable for the tempo, the only time my breathing became labored was on the 200m hill but quickly recovered even while pushing the pace. Last two miles were at 7:06 pace and could have held this pace further.Sunday: 8 miles 1:05:57 - 8:11 avg. pace - easy progression [9:18-7:25] A.M. This was a fun workout, unexpected progression as I managed to work my way through all of my easy paces. / 8 miles 1:04:19 - 8:02 avg. pace - moderate run P.M. Miles 5-7 @ sub 7:30 pace. Highly enjoyable run! Cruise baby!Week 38: 36 milesMonday: SRDTuesday: 8 miles 1:12:08 - 9:00 avg. pace - 3x1000m @ 7:15 pace w/3x600m recovery @ 7:44 pace = 3 continuous miles @ 7:23 pace + 2x200m hill sprints @ 5:45 pace. Wind began to kick up pretty good so I broke it off at 3 miles.Wednesday: 4 miles 40:16 - 10:04 avg. pace - recovery on hilly trailThursday: 8 miles 1:13:15 - 9:01 avg. pace - 2x2:00 @ 6:56 pace w/2:00 jog + stridesFriday: 5 miles 44:30 - 8:53 avg. pace - 6x400m @ 1:41 - 1:48 w/400m jog recoverySaturday: 11 miles including 14k race [1:02:26]. I'm happy :>Sunday: USRDWeek 39: 79 milesMonday: SRDTuesday: 10 miles 1:20:25 - 8:02 avg. pace - moderate. Wow, felt great! So kool to be cruising along aerobically at this pace. Two of the last 4 miles were @ 7:42 pace.Wednesday: 12 miles 1:41:24 - 8:27 avg. pace - easy A.M. / Another solid run. Counted 188 steps per minute @ a relaxing 8:30 pace. / 4 miles @ 4.7 mph + 4x200m @ 9.0 mph w/front / back hops recovery / XT reverse leg press 3 sets P.M. Thursday: 8 miles 1:11:12 - 8:54 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 8 miles 1:11:29 - 8:55 avg. pace - easy P.M.Friday: 8 miles 1:10:32 - 8:49 avg. pace - easy. Felt like a pig. Stopped in the FinishLine during my run and ordered another pair of the Lunar Montreals.Saturday: 15 miles 2:04:56 - 8:19 avg. pace - 3x5k @ 7:31 avg. pace w/1000m recovery 23:21 / 23:19 / 23:32 MAX WORKOUTSunday: 4 miles 34:47 - 8:39 avg. pace - easy A.M. / 10 miles 1:27:40 - 8:46 avg. pace - easy P.M.Week 40: 64 milesMonday: SRDTuesday: 7 miles 1:03:32 - 9:04 avg. pace - 1x3000m @ 7:23 pace + 3x200m hill sprints @ 5:46 pace. Still not fully recovered from my last quality workout so I broke it off after one repeat. Wednesday: 8 miles 1:11:36 - 8:54 avg. pace - very easy + 3x8 sec. hill sprints @ 5:19 pace A.M / 7 miles 1:01:15 - 8:44 avg. pace - very easy P.M. Thursday: 10 miles 1:28:45 - 8:52 avg. pace - easyFriday: 6 miles 55:43 - 9:16 avg. pace - recovery A.M. / 5 miles 44:48 - 8:57 avg. pace - recovery P.M.Saturday: 15 miles 1:56:38 - 7:46 avg. pace - 3x3000m @ 7:17 avg. pace w/600m recovery @ 7:51 avg. pace. I'm happy :>Sunday: 6 miles 58:27 - 9:44 avg. pace - recoveryWeek 41: 49 miles Monday: SRDTuesday: 12 miles 1:39:20 - 8:16 avg. pace - 7x1000m @ 7:13 pace w/600m recovery @ 8:05 pace - 6.59 continuous miles @ 7:31 avg. pace. Happy : > Wednesday: 9 miles 1:18:50 - 8:45 avg. pace - easy TAPER BEGINS. Thursday: 10 miles 1:37:10 - 9:42 avg. pace - easy on hilly trail Friday: USRD [sore shin]Saturday: 9 miles 1:16:58 - 8:32 avg. pace - progression [8:45-7:19] + strides. - Felt flat :< 2x8:45 1x8:15 2x7:50 1x7:19Sunday: 9 miles 1:18:23 - 8:42 avg. pace - easy + 3x200m hill sprints @ 5:35 pace + strides + form drills. Had a couple more gears available than I did yesterday.Week 42: 42 miles - Taper Monday: SRD - legs feel like pistons - wanna run!!!Tuesday: 6 miles 52:30 - 8:45 avg. pace - recovery + strides. Felt kinda sluggish but everytime I looked at my pace it was faster than expected - encouraging. The more I tried to slow down the quicker the pace. Figured out I'm in A corral. Wednesday: 5 miles 43:01 - 8:36 avg. pace - 2x1000m @ 6:57 pace w/90 sec. recovery + strides. Feelin' good. Thursday: 4 miles 34:44 - 8:41 avg. pace - recovery / easy + 2xstrides. Started blah, finished strong. Friday: 4 miles 33:59 - 8:30 avg. pace - 2x2:00 @ 10k pace [6:55 pace] + stride. Best I've felt overall this week ~ legs were jumpin'! Saturday: 6 miles 52:24 - 8:44 avg. pace - 6x400m @ 1:40-1:50 w/400m jog. Speed taper done.Sunday: 17 miles Columbus Half Marathon 1:36:33 [New Master PB @ 55]
Youth Has No Age. ~ Picasso / 1st road race: Charleston Distance Run 15 Miler - 1974 / profile
Thanks. This is helping. I've decided to follow the Hansons plan to the end, as it is well constructed: it pretty much follows what you all have said works best for you.