On the road again...
Nothing like tapering to push a decent week down this list. We've got some great, consistent runners here. Even with an injured foot, Rob added another gold star to his collection. Totals from last week...
I started my week with a 4 mile run this morning. Quite chilly out there.
I write. I read. I run. One time, I ran a lot on my 50th birthday.
Paul
Are we there yet?
it was chilly!!
I have been in Disney and was late to post my runs.. my new coach has me using athleticore.com which is good but I much prefer the interface of RA.. however most all of CLT Running Club uses.. athleticore so I like to spy on the competition.. and look at the ingredients to the recipe of some low times..
Ran a solid termpo effort this morning on Disney legs form this weekend so I was pleased.. right now is about the time in my training schedule where I get injured.. knock on wood.. hope everyone had a good thanksgiving.. how was the turkey trot??
Paul, you put in all the work needed for the marathon, now enjoy the taper, run a few times over the next week or not, it probably does not really matter what you do now anymore, just don't overdo a workout. About the weather for the race tho.....
I think my one week off was enough, and am pretty much back to normal. Seems to indicate either I did not run the monkey hard enough, or a rolling course is good for our legs. I was able to walk fairly normally the day after the marathon, had a couple of sore spots (quads, hip flexors) and I can no longer feel them.
Thanks, Sashi. I'm not worried about the lower mileage right now - am definitely following the plan to the "T" and trusting that all the work I've done will pay off. I have noticed that my easier runs are a bit quicker now - sure that's got something to do with running less miles now. I am making sure I keep the HR in my easy range, even recovery range if possible.
Now I'm wondering where to start in the marathon. I feel like 4:15 is do-able, but then I worry about burning myself early. I've thought about trying to run between the 4:15 and 4:30 pace groups and then pick it up in the 2nd half if I felt good, but I don't want to run too slow in the first half and not be able to make any of that time up.
I think a sub 4 is possible for you. Your workouts seem to indicate this. I think if my wheels did not fall off climbing a big hill at mile 19-20 I was on pace for about 4:15 (hit he half at 2:04) on that course on a fairly warm day. I'd go with the 4:10 pacer if they have one, and reevaluate at the half point.
the million dollar question.. how fast is too fast on the first half.. I think you are faster than you think you are..
5K @ 24:00 has your marathon just over 4 hours.. on RA calculator.. and McMillan predictor has a 3:53:XX.. Again,
I think you are faster than you think you are.. you've put in the training, now time to execute on raceday!
Go get em!
No 4:10 pace group. There is a 4:00 and a 4:15, so if I stay 2/3 of the way between them.....
I say start out with the 4:00 pace group. You can always drop back if you need to, but if you start with the 4:15 pace group you'll never catch up with the 4:00 group later in the race if you decide it's too slow for you.
Then again, you can do like mostly everybody else and not into a pace group at all and just pace yourself.
Hope you're not like me in a marathon... start off slow, then get progressively slower every mile until you're backing up. At that point I have to turn around and run in reverse just to reach the finish line.
Richard Hefner Past Race Results (Athlinks)
Paul, ultimately only you will know how a certain pace feels on race day.
I'd have a ceiling that I'd be willing to run (even if I can run faster) at the start. I'd bet a 9min/mile at the start will feel very easy, and it should (my first 2 miles at the monkey came in at 9min/mile pace on hills, and I thought I was holding back). You probably should feel like you are letting everyone go the first 6 miles, and maybe start feeling like this is work at mile 13, you'll probably would have caught a lot of the early rabbits that you let go earlier by now.
If you don't have a certain goal time, I'd go with the 4:15 group, only to help hold you back. Otherwise I'd go with the 4:00 pacers. At about mile 10 you are not holding back anymore, and after mile 20 you give whatever you have left, which could just mean holding the pace. Ultimately the perceived effort is your guide.
Whew I feel like a coach there, and you probably have run more marathons than I did.
Thanks, Richard and Sahsi. Good stuff to think about (and isn't that what we do as we taper?!).
Sashi - I've only run one, so we're even, although yours was Monkey, and that counts as 5.
Honestly, I don't know what I'm gonna do. My first marathon was 4:48, so anything I do should garner quite an improvement on that, but the last few easy runs have been easier and quicker, and it's got me wondering. Originally my goal was 4:30, and then 4:15 - which is 9:44 pace - and that seems slow compared to my latest easy runs. BUT, then I think about trying to hold a pace for 26.2 miles and suddenly 9:44 doesn't seem as slow.
Paul, my two cents:
1. Log-surfing, you have "Pace" runs and non-"Pace" runs that come in at more or less the same per-mile average. I tried comparing some HR data in them, and it's hard to decipher. For instance, your last 20-miler has some seriously high (for you) HR in the latter miles, but your "Pace" runs generally don't.
2. Pace teams are usually pretty solid, but I vaguely remember that they might go out a tad quicker than the pace for the target time to build a little cushion for the inevitable slowdown. So if you went out with the 4:15 group, they may not be all that much slower in the early going than your target pace.
3. I ran a 20-mile Daniels TLT and came away really encouraged. Then I ran a straight-up 20-miler, it was horrible, and I came way wondering how I'd run another 10k on top of that, at ANY pace. But we DO find the energy and resolve to cover that extra 10k, even moving at better than easy training pace. It'll be there when you call on it.
4. If you instead ran the Amica HM at ~90% effort, what kind of time do you realistically think you'd post? Double that, add ten minutes, and you have your Thunder Road time goal.
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau
Paul, my two cents: 1. Log-surfing, you have "Pace" runs and non-"Pace" runs that come in at more or less the same per-mile average. I tried comparing some HR data in them, and it's hard to decipher. For instance, your last 20-miler has some seriously high (for you) HR in the latter miles, but your "Pace" runs generally don't. 2. Pace teams are usually pretty solid, but I vaguely remember that they might go out a tad quicker than the pace for the target time to build a little cushion for the inevitable slowdown. So if you went out with the 4:15 group, they may not be all that much slower in the early going than your target pace. 3. I ran a 20-mile Daniels TLT and came away really encouraged. Then I ran a straight-up 20-miler, it was horrible, and I came way wondering how I'd run another 10k on top of that, at ANY pace. But we DO find the energy and resolve to cover that extra 10k, even moving at better than easy training pace. It'll be there when you call on it. 4. If you instead ran the Amica HM at ~90% effort, what kind of time do you realistically think you'd post? Double that, add ten minutes, and you have your Thunder Road time goal.
Thanks, Clive. I think the reason that the pace and non-pace runs seems so similar is because when I first started this training cycle, 9:44 was my target MP, so if I did a run that came in averaging that (or near it), I logged it pace. The farther I got into this training, the more my easy runs became that pace and I wasn't sure how to log it, because my AHR would be in my easy range even though the avg. pace would be my MP. That's what has made me wonder about whether to stick with that original 9:44 target or maybe go a bit faster.
As far as number 4, I think I could avg 9 min miles for that half, which doubled and adding 10 minutes would put me right around 4:05 as a target.
More important than the training-run paces, though, is that you have been much more consistent and logged more miles this fall v. fall of 2009. (Not counting all the miles you've put in between Richmond 2009 and today.) That alone should give you a lot of confidence.
Got a nice 4 miles in tonight just as the sun was setting. Beautiful, but turning cold quickly.
Wow...what a reality check when its cold here! Over the weekend it was 45 in the late afternoon going to 40 when I ran up in NY and it felt "cool". Today, it was 45 and it was freezing (can't go shirtless anymore...LOL). The wind today made it worse. I really feel for those that are running in the morning this week and next (low 20's = Eskimo runs). I'm headed to the AG track for a workout Thur at dusk (5pm) if anyone is interested (8x-9x 300m hard at mile pace w/400m jog in between, w/u, c/d).
Richard, noticed that your planning on running the 1/2 marathon at Thunder Road but I noticed that US X-Country Championships are at McAlpine next Sat mid-morning. My foot is not ready for this (plus given my size 14 shoe size they are an impediment on the dirt in trying to run fast). Its a 10k. You may want to think about this as the Masters divisions are broken by 5 yr age group and your division is manageable (in terms of numbers).
http://www.usatf.org/events/2010/USATFClubXCChampionships/entry/status_Masters55-59.asp
Rob