Charlotte, NC area runners

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Week Ending 03JUN2012 (Read 223 times)

    Wrapping up another week as we head into summer:

     

    amlinz 84.6 mi
    Pete.Hu 70.7 mi
    nanxin 60.2 mi
    CliveF 50.6 mi
    old-runner 37.1 mi
    Happyfeet 29.8 mi
    ChakaKahn 28.5 mi
    Lpadg 20 mi
    CarolinaBlue 18.4 mi
    theyapper66 17.5 mi
    fraggle 10.6 mi
    alholley 8.5 mi
    rossruns 7.1 mi
    jdbrown 6.6 mi
    SForrester 5.1 mi
    atomno2 5 mi

     

    RACES:

    RUNNER DATE RACE LOCATION DIST GOAL RESULT
    Last week:            
    old-runner 28MAY2012 Cotton Row Run Huntsville AL 10k sub-45 45:32
    old-runner 02JUN2012 Charity Chase Hickory NC  HM

    Soft = sub-1:45

    "Real" = sub-1:40

    1:38:50
                 
    This week:            
    old-runner 08JUN2012 Main St. Challenge China Grove NC  5k   21:24 (75.0%)
    CliveF 08JUN2012 Main St. Challenge China Grove NC 5k 19:30 Shocked 19:31 (75.0%)
    theyapper66 08JUN2012 Main St. Challenge China Grove NC 5k   DNS
    Lpadg 08JUN2012 Main St. Challenge China Grove NC 5k   22:32 (64.4%)
    Happyfeet 08JUN2012 Main St. Challenge China Grove NC 5k   23:26 (59.1%)

    “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

      Richard, Clive wrote me (via email as he did not want to disclose this publicly) that he thinks that your "jinx powers" are so powerful that perhaps me having the mere thought of planning to run at China Grove in mid-March, and knowing that you always race in it, caused my otherwise healthy and strong left quad (as the prior issues were w/my right quad) to degenerate.

      Rob, thank you for keeping that private. Joking  FWIW, ever since I posted that I was considering China Grove, my knee has hurt.  Thanks, Richard!

      “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

        Bahaha... I'm sure my jinx powers has way more to do with your sore knee than the fact that you've jacked up your mileage to over 50 miles a week lately!

         

        Okay, in the true spirit of the challenge as in "Main Street Challenge" I think we should do an age-graded challenge in this race and see what happens.  At least four of us are running and possibly more. Han ran it last year so maybe he'll be back but hasn't mentioned it. Aaron Linz might make a showing as well. I'll go out on a limb and say if Aaron runs he'll beat all of us with or and without age grading. Everybody up for the challenge?

          I think Richard is trying to "tilt" this whole age-grading thing in his favor (for some reason, there must be a bigger jump in the age grading tables when one enters the 60 yr old bracket, as ever since he has turned 60 he is proselytizing age-grading as the absolute truth in terms of comparing performances.  I would (if I was running China Grove but not due partially to Richard's jinx powers) vote to not only age-grade, but also adjust for weight. You see, Richard has 50 lbs on me, at least 40 lbs on Cliff (and about 45 lbs on Clive), and a solid weight advantage on Paul and Lynwood. According to Richard's weight conversion (which I've seen in published articles), an incremental pound of weight equates to about a second per mile (i.e., if you weigh 3 pounds less, then you can run 3 seconds faster)  -- so in a 5k, forgetting any age advantage Richard  would enjoy over me, Cliff, Clive, etc., I would have a 150 second (or 2 min 30 sec) time disadvantage (and both Cliff and Clive would have about a 2 min time disadvantage depending on how much either weighs). To me, age-grading and weight-grading would seem to be the only fair method of comparing performances at this race (and all on-going races that Richard "throws down the age-grade gauntlet")? And given we do live in a democracy, I'd like to have others weigh (no pun intended) in on this?

          Rob

            Rob, I really have no excuse either way. Can we adjust for legs to torso ratio, or kids activities in the week or something. Deciding Between the china grove and the Huntersville race Saturday. Leaning towards the China Grove race, but it's a long drive back home.

              Bahahahahaha... Rob, you're completely crackin' me up! So now we're gonna break out the weight-graded tables?? How about we also use the shoe-size-graded table and the what-I-had-for-lunch-graded table? And don't forget the how-far-I-had-to-drive-to-get-to-the-race-graded table and the how-much-my-wife-detests-me-running-races-graded table. And of course we'll factor in Shashi's torso-graded table and how-many-activities-I-had-to-take-my-kids-to-graded table.

               

              I gotta compose myself. I think this is the first time I've actually rolled on the floor laughing.

               

              Anyhoo, I didn't think much about the age-grading thing until Aaron brought it up to me when he challenged me (and beat me) in the Brooklyn half. I hadn't paid much attention to it up until then but when I looked into it, it did seem favorable for me. I don't know how scientific it is... could be completely bogus, but it's nice to think that if I were young I could run really fast.

               

              Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go eat... a lot.... I'm going to try to gain 50 pounds by Friday to make this a fair race.

                I think Richard is trying to "tilt" this whole age-grading thing in his favor (for some reason, there must be a bigger jump in the age grading tables when one enters the 60 yr old bracket, as ever since he has turned 60 he is proselytizing age-grading as the absolute truth in terms of comparing performances.

                The age-graded times for the more "senior" runners are soft -- Kenyans haven't been around that long.

                Wink

                 

                5k age-graded equivalents:

                Runner Age Grade Time Grade Time Grade Time PR
                Richard 60 70% 22:55 75% 21:23 80% 20:03 19:42 (80.7%)
                Cliff 49 70% 20:54 75% 19:30 80% 18:17 19:43 (74.1%)
                Lynwood 48 70% 20:44 75% 19:21 80% 18:09 21:22 (67.3%)
                Aaron 39 70% 19:21 75% 18:04 80% 16:56 15:51 (85.5%)

                “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                  The age-graded times for the more "senior" runners are soft -- Kenyans haven't been around that long.

                  Wink

                   

                  5k age-graded equivalents:

                  Runner Age Grade Time Grade Time Grade Time PR
                  Richard 60 70% 22:55 75% 21:23 80% 20:03 19:42 (80.7%)
                  Cliff 49 70% 20:54 75% 19:30 80% 18:17 19:43 (74.1%)
                  Lynwood 48 70% 20:44 75% 19:21 80% 18:09 21:22 (67.3%)
                  Aaron 39 70% 19:21 75% 18:04 80% 16:56 15:51 (85.5%)

                   

                  I've been looking at this for several minutes and I can't figure out why these numbers would confirm that the times are "soft" (not sure what that means) for more senior runners. Why are they soft? And what do the Kenyans have to do with it?

                   

                  As far as a big jump from 59 to 60, I haven't checked but I don't think that's the case. I think it would be the same as adding a year to any age (46 to 47 for example).

                    Ha ha, I see  a general consensus forming. Cliff's point is right on the spot about the lack of Kenyans (and Ethiopians and Eirtreans) in the more senior age ranges lends the age grading scale to be "softer" as one ages up (and to a degree a result of lion and cheetah attacks).

                    Richard, you raise a valid point about shoe size. I'm a full size 14, I think your a 7 or 8, which means for a 9 oz shoe (weights of all shoes are based on a size 9 shoe), assuming a linear relationship, my shoe weighs 14 oz and yours only 7 oz (so my shoe weighs twice what your shoes weigh, and that 7 oz represents another 1.5 second disadvantage for me vs. Richard over a 5k!).

                    Finally, as far as weight, we all cannot go on a Biafran diet as Richard (although I did not realize that Bojangles had retail locations in Biafra based upon Richard's taste for Bojangles). "Weight grading" is an acceptable scientific standard. I have a link to a Daniels running table (you can download the excel file -- I use this) where you can compare your time (for a 5k for example) and how you would expect to perform if you weighed less (default is in 4% increments). So you can not only "age-grade", you can also "weight-grade" (and in this spreadsheet you can see the results in the bottom right hand section).

                    

                    http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html

                    Rob

                      For the weight-conscious, you can use this calculator (which is also handy for many other features).

                       

                       

                      Richard, the table wasn't connected to the Kenyans joke; it was just a reference for the folks who said they were going to China Grove, to show the different times we four would need for various age-graded performances.

                       

                      Age grading expresses a time as a percentage of the world record for the distance by someone of the same age and gender.  But the line is smoothed somewhat by the WAVA folks to correct for potential weirdness if there's a dead spot for one particular age.

                       

                      To my knowledge,Africans past their prime earning days seem to leave the sport.  The world-class guys (African or otherwise) don't seem to keep training and racing deep into their years.  So while the open and early-masters years still are populated by Africans and aging elites, there don't seem to be many household names among the AG record-holders past 50 or so.

                       

                      I'm not knocking age-grading -- in fact, I write the age-grade value for every race in my training log -- but merely trying to illuminate its non-linearity and guess at the reasons for it.

                      “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman


                      On the road back

                        My vote is for any table that helps me beat Richard.  Preferably a concrete picnic table that he has to drag for the entire race.

                        2013 Goals: Run more. Smile while I do it. Complete 2 marathons in a year. (1 down, 1 to go)

                          My vote is for any table that helps me beat Richard.  

                           Or require Pushups every mile.  I am good at those.

                            Deciding between the china grove and the Huntersville race Saturday. Leaning towards the China Grove race, but it's a long drive back home.

                            What H'ville race is this?

                            “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                              I meant to say "Pick Your Poison 5K" in Davidson on the 9th, the HFFA is on July 4th.


                              On the road back

                                Well, I'm up in the air about the China Grove race.  I've been running great and suddenly last week my 13 y/o sons both got this idea that our family should do the Insanity workouts over summer break.  Theses workouts are a beast, and after three days my legs are sore.  I did run this morning, but I'm not sure if I've got any racing in me (as if I did before).  Still deciding.  I want to come and run just b/c it's a fun race, but to not race it makes it tough.

                                 

                                I'm an idiot.

                                2013 Goals: Run more. Smile while I do it. Complete 2 marathons in a year. (1 down, 1 to go)

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