Marathon Trainers

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Week of 3/21/2011 (Read 218 times)

Kimmie


    oh yes, I see that now.

     

    Perry- you coming on Saturday?  Sorry, I should know this......   I can't find anything on Mr. Henry's website that says their hours, but I'll call them after lunch.

     

    Dave, you in DC this weekend  by any chance?    I saw your puppy on FB... super cute.   How do you like running with him?

      Hey there, not trying to change the topic here, but I need some advice.

       

      I ran a 3:55 in 2009 on 42mpw and no speed work.

      I ran a 4:20 in 2010 on 32mpw, some speed work, and 10 additional pounds.

       

      My training has significantly improved over the last year, and I'm regularly doing 7mi tempos around 7:30 pace, and 6-8 sets of intervals ranging from 2:15 to 7:00 minutes, with varying speeds, around 6:15 pace I think for those shorter ones and just over 7min/mi for the 7 min sets.

       

      For my increasing long run every other weekend I had been doing the first half at marathon pace plus 1 min to 1/2 minutes, then getting the second half to closer to marathon pace.  Two weekends ago I set out for a comfortably paced 20mi and had an 8:29 overall (I uploaded my garmin splits).  I could have run further.  I could have also peaked this week.

       

      This question should be posed after my final 20mi run this weekend, but I'm wondering whether it's ridiculous to aim for an 8:23 pace to get a 3:40, or whether I should aim for closer to 3:50.  Although my last 20 wasn't a push at all, I was very sore the following two days, and I am a little wary about allowing myself to do that pace again (assuming I could), because of the recovery time.

       

      Based on my tempos, my intervals, and my overall base mileage over the last two months being 56mpw (before that I was at 45mpw), is it ridiculous to aim for 3:40?

        AG - You've run 2 marathons a year apart?  My experience was that I was able to take about 10 minutes off my first marathon when I ran my 2nd, with the first being run at a relatively comfortable pace to assure finish.  The second had a good training cycle, though and was 6 months after my first.  So knowing nothing else, I'd advice aim at 3:45.  I think 3:40 has ha good shot at being a death march at the end.  If you're a "no risk - no reward" kind of person, go for it (Dave would Smile ).

         

        Kim - Tramps and his wife might come (running full, may be coming late), and I might invite at least one person from work, but I'm not sure if he'll be interested.

        Lou, (aka Mr. predawnrunner), MD, USA | Lou's Brews | lking@pobox.com


        Happy Camper

          AG:  Holding that 8:29 pace another 10k in a race would have been a nice jump in a PR.  You were sore for two days after cutting off at 20 and you shouldn't be that sore after doing a 20-miler at training pace.  Unless this is your last marathon, I would plan 8:29 as goal pace and find out how you do with 10k more added on. It's that last 10k that makes for a great marathon or a flameout.  

           

          10 & change this morning at faster than marathon pace.  Need to start a cutback so I'm fresh for the half this weekend. 

          Determination: The feeling you get right before you try something incredibly stupid.


          Dave

             I think 3:40 has ha good shot at being a death march at the end.  If you're a "no risk - no reward" kind of person, go for it (Dave would Smile ).

             

            Yeah, probably Big grin.

             

            I went from a 4:15 to a 3:40 in one year.  I was thinking 3:35 or even 3:30 but showed good restraint and ran a smart race on race day.  

             

            Then I did this:

             

            This is old news to my Blister Teammates but it's a great memory nonetheless.

             

            Gen, your 20 miler should tell you quite a bit.  I still think you're pushing too much intensity and not enough lower intensity effort into your training schedule.  There is value in running long runs slower than goal pace to build that base of endurance that you're going to need on race day.  

             

            Having said that, I don't think that you've peaked this week.  I think 3:40 is very achievable for you THIS time.  You just have to avoid the big mistake of pushing too hard and getting injured before you get to the starting line.  You also need to make sure you control your pace early and don't get too enthusiastic.

             

            You've got HUGE potential Gen.  I think that you've got the potential to run much faster than 3:40 in your next training cycle.

            I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

            dgb2n@yahoo.com

              Ah, Dave, that brings back fond memories. I can just see you scampering around after Perry before the wheels fall off, then he skips merrily on ahead and leaves you in a quivering state of bonkdom. Lessons learned, my friend.

               

              Now Gen on the other hand, will be level-headed and practical in her approach to this marathon. Right?? Big grin  Heh, I'd like to say that about me, too. Actually, I think you're heading into it with the right amount of care, but your training paces have gotten pretty fast and you'll really need to work on control. As for that 20 miler leaving you somewhat sore, I don't think that's much to be concerned about because you've pushed new limits (for this training cycle at least). The key will be... your next 20 miler should be easier, even at the same pace. That's the adaptation of your legs and body to the stress of training. If it took you a full week to recover from your first one though, and your next one is just as difficult, then yes you need to reconsider paces and strategy. But I think you've easily got a 3:40 in you. You're fast than I am, and the old lady that I am can crank out a sub 3:40... I say go for it.

               

              Elliptical and upper body weights at lunchtime, will RAW in the warm sunshine and melting ice. It can't melt fast enough for me, I tell ya!

                I've hit the wall twice, and yep two marathons in two years.  The second time around was much earlier, so much more brutal.  This was before my garmin days, and I have no doubt in my mind that I trotted on out at a 7 minute mile, so I'm also better equipped now.  I do think it took me two times to learn,  I probably expected the avoid the wall the second time around.

                 

                When I did the 20, I just went out at a comfortable pace because I've been on a treadmill for so long.  I did expect my pace to drop towards the end, or for me to hit the wall, but I was ok.  It wasn't intentional to get a pace, just get into a rhythm.  I was really really sore for a couple of days, but ran both days.  Because I've made mistakes both times I think I'm going into it with a better pace and better training, but I will lose my mind if I hit the wall again.  I could handle it at mile 24, but please not before mile 20.   No risks for this puppy.


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  Two days of soreness after 20mi at target MP sounds like a reasonable outcome to me, not a problem -- although I'm not smart or experienced enough to be able to digest all the pace & interval info Gen provided.

                   

                  Yesterday did 2x800 w DW, and they left me tired. But turned it into a long run. Today did 5x800 at slightly faster pace with another running partner, and felt good through them -- but pushed the last one hard and was really tired after that. Then got some soreness, and didn't make it a long run. But was happy to have felt good through most of the speedwork.

                   

                  I don't expect to do any more speedwork (except maybe striders) this week b/c I'm doing a 2mi leg of a relay on Fri.

                   

                  I don't think we'll be able to make the Natl meetup, but I haven't given up entirely yet. I am co-directing our last trail race (of our series) that morning however.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                  Dave

                      

                    When I did the 20, I just went out at a comfortable pace because I've been on a treadmill for so long.  I did expect my pace to drop towards the end, or for me to hit the wall, but I was ok.  It wasn't intentional to get a pace, just get into a rhythm.  I was really really sore for a couple of days, but ran both days.  Because I've made mistakes both times I think I'm going into it with a better pace and better training, but I will lose my mind if I hit the wall again.  I could handle it at mile 24, but please not before mile 20.   No risks for this puppy.

                     

                    So maybe the an approach might be to mimic this on race day. Go out maybe a little behind the 3:40 pace, give up a minute or two in the first half.  If you went out at an 8:40, you'd be losing 17 seconds per mile.  6 miles at that pace and you're only 2 minutes behind your goal pace.    Get on pace around the half and hold steady to 20.  Then whatever you've got left.  

                     

                    You'll know by 16 or 17 whether you can hold on or not.  If not, back it off to the 8:40 and hold that.  Even 15 or 20 seconds per mile can make a big difference in how you feel and might hold off a bonk.

                    I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                    dgb2n@yahoo.com

                      I'm not discounting the advice earlier to go for 3:45, and that could very well be a push for me, I guess we'll see.  Earlier this evening I was figuring out the pace for the 3:40 and the 3:45, and figuring how much 'catchup' I'd have to do if I went out slower and then felt good.  I like the idea to lower my pace for the first half, bring it up to goal pace from 12-20 and then give it all I have.  I'm going to be in the best possible situation for pushing those last miles, if I've been conservative for so long. 

                       

                      Last time I was checking my pace bracelet and excitedly seeing how much faster I was going, and my buddy yelled something to me from the side around mile 13 about 'gen you're going too fast', but clearly I wasn't listening.  I was envisiging this amazing time, then I was pushing myself to keep up with the pacer, then pushing myself to keep up with the pacer behind that, so overall I need to pay more attention to how I feel (before my entire focus is on my dead legs and my desire to be run over).  Regardless of my finishing time, my training shows I'm going to get a PR, so that's something to focus on more than a significant PR.  OK trying to worry less now. 

                       

                      Thanks for the advice!!


                      On the road back

                        I'm not discounting the advice earlier to go for 3:45, and that could very well be a push for me, I guess we'll see.  Earlier this evening I was figuring out the pace for the 3:40 and the 3:45, and figuring how much 'catchup' I'd have to do if I went out slower and then felt good.  I like the idea to lower my pace for the first half, bring it up to goal pace from 12-20 and then give it all I have.  I'm going to be in the best possible situation for pushing those last miles, if I've been conservative for so long. 

                         

                        Just based on the pace for your last 20 miler and your recent tempo runs, I think 3:45 would be very doable for you.  I wouldn't be surprised if that number got down closer to 3:40.

                        2013 Goals: Run more. Smile while I do it. Complete 2 marathons in a year. (1 down, 1 to go)


                        On the road back

                          I can't find anything on Mr. Henry's website that says their hours, but I'll call them after lunch.

                           

                          I called.  They open at 11a on Saturdays.

                          2013 Goals: Run more. Smile while I do it. Complete 2 marathons in a year. (1 down, 1 to go)

                            I called.  They open at 11a on Saturdays.

                             

                            the real question is how early can Kim get there Smile

                             

                            we'll probably shower at the hotel before going -- it'll be cold/nasty and we won't be wanting to sit around in wet clothes

                            Lou, (aka Mr. predawnrunner), MD, USA | Lou's Brews | lking@pobox.com


                            On the road back

                              I'll be doing the same as you guys.  race, head back to the hotel, clean up and get dry then head back to Mr. Henry's.

                               

                              Did a nice 10k progression this morning.  Started in the upper 9s and finished in the upper 7s.  I'm nervous about Saturday, because I haven't felt like I've had a groove for about 2 weeks now.  Hoping I haven't peaked too soon.

                              2013 Goals: Run more. Smile while I do it. Complete 2 marathons in a year. (1 down, 1 to go)

                              Kimmie


                                Ok, I deserve that.    I will see you Saturday at 11:00.  Paul, you're going to do great.

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