Damn, Jeff. Typical philosopher. I never implied everyone big has no talent. I said I have no natural talent. I just work my ass off. And I suppose you could be right about the bonking issue. I just know when I have bonked it's because I was low on gas. This is why I don't normally pontificate about this shit, because I really only know what's worked for me and a select group of people I have taken advice from over the years. Curiously they were all DIV I runners and somehow I remolded some of their training methods into a way that worked for my untalented self. Ok, no more advice from me until at least March 2009. Tony, just listen to Jeff. He won't do you wrong. For real. He's the resident stud and I am a ham and egger.

Tony, just listen to Jeff. He won't do you wrong. For real. He's the resident stud and I am a ham and egger.

Marcus I appreciate your ideas, and it's important to have these discussions because they help me to sharpen my own thinking. Like I said, we don't disagree on much, and it's clear that you've found what works well for you. I also like the way you think about talent. More people should think like that, whether it's "true" or not. Like spaniel says on the big board, "Talent" is a cop-out for not wanting to work. One more thing, I don't think of myself as an elite runner--maybe in the same way that you think you have no talent.

The talent I'm talking about is independent of hard work or training. One thing I know about is weight training because I did it for years. I'm trying not to be one of those guys who tell the "back in my prime" stories, but this one has a purpose so I'll tell it. I had just started lifting weights in high school and was in the gym with a couple of football players who outweighed me by at least 60 lbs (I was about 140). They were trying to bench press a weight on the bench press machine and both tried and weren't able to do it. I laid down on the bench and they laughed because they knew my skinny arse couldn't do it if THEY couldn't. I lifted the weight and they were shocked...asked me how I did it...said I must have some special kind of concentration or something. I didn't know how I did it, I just did it. I didn't know a lot about training - it was just something that came natural to me. So when I say someone has "talent" it's not a copout. No amount of concentration or HTFU or whatever could have allowed me to run 3:09 in my first marathon. The amount of "talent" I have is beyond my control. What I do with what I have isn't. I developed the talent I had in weightlifting until my shoulder wore out and I had to have surgery...now I'm pretty sure my other shoulder needs it. So now instead of doing what I'm good at...I run. But I know I can get better so that's why I ask the smart folks like you guys questions about training.