Low HR Training

"Expose Your Slow Twitchers" Daily Maffetone and/or Low-HR Training Reports (Read 23291 times)

BeeRunB


    6:00am, 74F,

    I seem to notice that a lot of faster pace downhill running is about controlled yet rapid turnover.  Step, step, step....  and tryng to land on the mid-foot, not heels.

     

    74° sweet. You must live in Coolerland. Wink

    I think downhills in races are pretty much about the controlled, rapid turnover you speak of. Flowing down.

    Good stuff, Lab.

     

    TODAY:


    Still doing intervals at LT heart rate (cruise).

    7x .25 mi today at ave pace 8:04 pace . With about 3:40 rest in between (.3 mile). Still making

    leaps forward.

     

    Next two days off!

     

    Have a good weekend.Cool

    --Jimmy

    runnerclay


    Consistently Slow

      7 mile run turned into 6.4 mile walk. Knee was a little stiff. It appears to be a little swollen. Guess this means I need to ice it.

      Run until the trail runs out.

       SCHEDULE 2016--

       The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

      Docket_Rocket


        Hi!  20 miles done today.  The HR said it was 152 but since it got wet and started telling me I was dying, I assume it was lower.  11:06mm.  Perfect pacing.

        Damaris

         

        As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

        Fundraising Page

        runnerclay


        Consistently Slow

          Hi!  20 miles done today.  The HR said it was 152 but since it got wet and started telling me I was dying, I assume it was lower.  11:06mm.  Perfect pacing.

          Big grin

           

          12.5 mile bike. HR 125/151

          Run until the trail runs out.

           SCHEDULE 2016--

           The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

          unsolicited chatter

          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

          Docket_Rocket


            Nice bike ride, clay!

             

            6  miles @ 141HR and 11:35mm.  Nice recovery run and I even ran them with a fellow forumite.

            Damaris

             

            As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

            Fundraising Page

            labhiker


              11.8 mile, 126 bmp - good LR control - blue sky and sun.  HH not too bad, however finished 2 handheld water bottles making it a point to sip every 15-20 minutes.

               

              Turnover/ cadence 84 ave, 94 max.  step, step, step at nice easy MAF.  It must look like a shuffle to watch.  Paying attention to landing on mid-foot and not extending my foot too far in front.  Keep the turnover going.  Very short stride going up hills and just keep grinding the turnover.  Hopeful this is the way to go.

               

              Damaris - great 20 followed by a 6.

               

              ron - nice bike and good HR.

              labhiker

                Cruise intervals yesterday. (...) The rest interval is .3 mile and currently about 5 minutes, and were about 6-7 minutes when I started. I run a speed that gets my heart rate back down to MAF. The usual recommendation for these workouts is one minute rest, but I find the longer rest is working for me.

                (...)

                 

                So, I'm seeing improvement in speed at both lactate threshold and MAF HR's on just 3 days running, with a volume of about 3-4 hours, and about 15 miles. 1-2 days of stationary bike, walking, and yard work.  I'll keep you posted.

                 

                I've done just one fall race in the last 4 years here in Atlanta, and really want to get back to cool weather racing. Cool

                 

                nice progress! though long rest kind of decreases efficiency. glad it still works though. Smile and of course 3 days a week will work too for improvement for a pretty long time before getting to a plateau. less is often more. a friend of mine just ran a PR this March for HM (1:24-something), on 3 days per week, which he's been doing for years (sometimes 4 for tuneup before races). consistency (not skipping weeks/months) is key I think! note, his HM PR before that was maybe 30-60secs slower from previous year. I say this is impressive at his level factoring in his age too, he's getting old (47 now?). Smile he uses Hadd method

                 

                well end of rant... Smile good luck to your running!

                BeeRunB


                   

                  nice progress! though long rest kind of decreases efficiency.

                   

                  Hi, C!,

                   

                  Good to see you've returned form your quad-annual hibernation (relative to this forum that is). Please elaborate more on long rest intervals decreasing efficiency.

                   

                  What I'm doing right now is a build-up to more of the way most runners do cruise intervals ( as defined in this article). I'm almost to a .5 mile rep on the long rep day, having started out at .25 mi. In terms of time, I 'm within the 3 to 10 minute time prescribed in that article. The rest interval is much longer than the 1 minute, though. I figured I'm not the fittest cheetah in the jungle these days, and wanted to just set a distance for the rest interval (.3 mile), bringing my HR down to the same point each time, and then let my fitness determine the duration. I need to be careful and not bite off more than I can chew at this point. The more fit I become, the faster I'll run the rest interval. On the long rep day, I get my HR down to MAF during the rest, and averaged about 6-7 minutes at first, but is currently about 3:30 to 4 minutes.

                   

                  On the short rep day (.25 mile hard reps), I arbitrarily chose a speed (4.6 mph/ 13:02 per mile) instead of using HR. I wanted to see how my HR dropped over time during the rest at a certain rest speed. The average HR for the rest intervals started out at 158 bpm (4x.3 mi of rest) and is down to 153 bpm (6x.3 mile of rest). HR gets down to the low 140's before I start to speed up again to get to the HR of the hard rep. My plan is to up the speed when  and if my HR drops to below MAF. Until then, 4.6mph.

                   

                  I figure as long as my pace keeps improving at the LT heart rate (176bpm--about 88% MHR), during the rest intervals, and also at MAF, then I'm good to go. If I get fast enough, I'll start racing again. If MAF speed begins to regress, back to base phase. Right now, I'm sticking to 3 days running per week, but that might change at some point. I'll stick to it as long as I keep improving. It blows my mind a little bit, because for ten years I've strived for a 6-days a week schedule. I've never tried something like this and to see it going okay is shifting my thinking. Especially for anaerobic phases. For me, and at this age, the more rest the better during an anaerobic phase.

                  Cool

                    hehe, well only hibernation on this forum, not in the running. Cool in running I really like this year so far!

                     

                     

                    about the efficiency issue: I read that the point of most interval workouts is to spend enough time at an intensity that stresses the oxygen handling abilities, that is, aimed at improving the aerobic capacity.

                     

                    so if someone does X intervals with shorter rest that means more time will be spent at a high intensity eliciting improvement. that's because if the rest is incomplete, you'll take less time in the next interval to get back up at the high level of oxygen consumption. (yes it takes time, it doesn't happen in the very first second after starting the interval.)

                     

                    of course there's a fine balance to hit because if you keep the rest periods too short compared to your fitness level, you'll not be able to finish the workout before you've had a chance to accumulate enough distance and time at the high workout intensity.

                     

                    hope this makes sense Smile

                     

                     

                    and yes I do think that most runners don't need 6 days per week. when you're at a level where the only way to stress your system further to get improvements is by having runs 6 days a week then fine but it takes time to get there and until then yes "less is more"! Cool

                     

                    easy days are good. but rest days are good too. of course if someone just likes to jog often at a nice low intensity/LHR, just for enjoyment, that's fine at 6 days per week too or even more. Smile

                    BeeRunB



                      about the efficiency issue: I read that the point of most interval workouts is to spend enough time at an intensity that stresses the oxygen handling abilities, that is, aimed at improving the aerobic capacity.

                       

                      so if someone does X intervals with shorter rest that means more time will be spent at a high intensity eliciting improvement. that's because if the rest is incomplete, you'll take less time in the next interval to get back up at the high level of oxygen consumption. (yes it takes time, it doesn't happen in the very first second after starting the interval.)

                       

                      of course there's a fine balance to hit because if you keep the rest periods too short compared to your fitness level, you'll not be able to finish the workout before you've had a chance to accumulate enough distance and time at the high workout intensity.

                       

                      hope this makes sense Smile

                       

                       

                      I know that there is that belief system about intervals--keep the rest interval short and for those reasons. To me the measure if something is working or not is pace at the same HR. If I'm getting faster at 176 bpm with long intervals rest, then in my case the length of the rest interval doesn't seem to matter (within reason--rest intervals of 2 years probably don't work). It's like anything you read about training, you can read beliefs that the rest has to be brief, and you can read that they should be long. It can drive you nuts. On this particular experiment, I figured since I'm so fat and it's so hot and I'm so slow, that long intervals would be better for me. Didn't I mention my old fartness? Ah, life keeps marching on my friend, and "the inevitable" keeps punching in the face every day. Still, I have a dream. And it doesn't involve hobbits, tripping over raised manhole covers during a race, or dying with Twinkie wrappers all over my chest and one hanging out of my mouth with my last words being "I could have been a contender."

                      Docket_Rocket


                        Hi, guys.

                         

                        I had a great 6 on monday but an asthma full interval session yesterday.  We'll see tonight.

                        Damaris

                         

                        As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                        Fundraising Page

                        npaden


                          3.4 miles during lunch today at the office.  Beautiful, just 75 degrees on August 14th at noon.

                           

                          Overall 134 avg HR, avg pace 9:41.  2nd mile was 136 avg HR and 9:32 pace.

                           

                          Nice run.

                          Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                             

                            I know that there is that belief system about intervals--keep the rest interval short and for those reasons. To me the measure if something is working or not is pace at the same HR. If I'm getting faster at 176 bpm with long intervals rest, then in my case the length of the rest interval doesn't seem to matter (within reason--rest intervals of 2 years probably don't work). It's like anything you read about training, you can read beliefs that the rest has to be brief, and you can read that they should be long. It can drive you nuts. On this particular experiment, I figured since I'm so fat and it's so hot and I'm so slow, that long intervals would be better for me. Didn't I mention my old fartness? Ah, life keeps marching on my friend, and "the inevitable" keeps punching in the face every day. Still, I have a dream. And it doesn't involve hobbits, tripping over raised manhole covers during a race, or dying with Twinkie wrappers all over my chest and one hanging out of my mouth with my last words being "I could have been a contender."

                             

                            I was talking about efficiency. it doesn't mean that long intervals can't work. and of course it all also depends on fitness level as to how much rest you should allow. a less fit runner shouldn't do or need as much time at high intensity than a more fit runner.

                             

                            if there is a sensible explanation behind when it has to be short rest and when it should be longer etc then it doesn't drive me nuts. Smile

                             

                            as for HR/pace relationship yes it's a good measure of training working or not but I think more things need to be checked to see how you're progressing, not just HR.

                             

                            glad your dream doesn't involve any of that. Big grin

                            BeeRunB


                               

                              as for HR/pace relationship yes it's a good measure of training working or not but I think more things need to be checked to see how you're progressing, not just HR.

                               

                              Hey C,

                               

                              What in particular? What's your method of measuring your fitness?

                               

                              I go by the speed at LT and MAF as indicators as to what shape I'm in. Also similar training runs. Races are good indicators, of course. But when I'm not racing, see the first two sentence in this paragraph.

                               

                              TODAY:

                              progression run

                              with

                              MAF test 1-mile

                              13:09 pace

                              aerobic speed heading in the correct direction

                               

                              --JimmyCool

                              Docket_Rocket


                                Hi, guys.  After my intervals ended up with an asthma attack on Tuesday, I took an SRD yesterday as I was still laboring for breath. Today, I ran 11 miles at 10:48mm and 149HR (one point above).  Felt great all throughout.  I am not at 100% but that is pretty damn close!

                                Damaris

                                 

                                As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                                Fundraising Page