Low HR Training

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Tapering for Marathon (Read 488 times)

Preto


    How long do you taper before a marathon? Typically, training programs call for a three week taper but I'm wondering if anyone training LHR shortens that a bit. I have been running for about 6 years but have only been training LHR for about 1 year. In my previous marathons (before LHR), I reached the three week point feeling wasted and totally looking forward to the decrease in mileage (overtrained!). However, this time, due to the sub-MAF running, I feel fresh and feel like I could run the marathon tomorrow. Will I still benefit from a three week taper even though I feel great right now? Or should I keep my mileage up until the marathon? I currently train about 40 - 50 miles a week and have experienced amazing improvements with LHR training. Thanks!


    run-easy-race-hard

      I don't taper at all before marathons other than to perhaps take it a bit easier the day before.
        For a goal race marathon. I usually do a 2 week taper. So, two weeks out my long run 18 miles, then one week out 10 to 12. About 45 to 50 miles the week before is where I like to end up. Then the week before I'll run 25 miles or so with a rest day before the race. My peak mileage is 80 to 85. If my mileage was 50 a week, there wouldn't be much of a taper. (personally speaking)
        Shiksa


          Really? No taper is necessary unless maximum effort will be used? I may have to redo my schedule a bit.

          Stacy
          I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://www.BlakeHillHouse.com

          BeeRunB


            My best marathons have come after a three week taper with lots of extra rest. --Jimmy
            gregw


              As you can see from the above, it really depends on the person. It also depends on the kind of training you are doing. Generally, I think the more aerobic the training and the fewer miles you are doing, the shorter the taper should be. Really, I think you just want to make sure your legs are fresh and that you don't go into the race in a glycogen depleted state. For me, I just shorten the long run on the weekend before (<= 13 miles) and then take fr and sat off completely. 13="" miles)="" and="" then="" take="" fr="" and="" sat="" off=""></= 13 miles) and then take fr and sat off completely.>


              run-easy-race-hard

                yeah, just a few interesting but useless factoids: - my first sub-3:25 marathon was one week after my second 50 mile race - my first sub-3:20 marathon was the day after a 20 mile training run - I've run 6 marathons after 20 mile training runs and I've run 3 20 mile training runs the day after 3 other marathons or ultras. - I ran my best 50k two weeks after a Boston qualifying marathon (which was one week after a marathon where I paced my friend to her BQ in 3:45) - I ran my best 100 miler in 18:53, one week after the 50k above. During the 100 miler, I hit my 50 mile PR (at the time) of 7:53 in the first half. - Two weeks after that 100 miler, I ran the Boston marathon in a PR (at the time) of 3:11:56 - I have never broken 3:30 in marathon after more than a 5 day taper. Remember, I do nothing hard in training whatsoever, hence I don't really have anything to taper from. I get all of my hard workouts from races.
                Shiksa


                  Jesse - what you are saying makes total sense to me too. I mean I just did my 3rd 16 miler and it was a piece of cake after a few weeks of more mileage. Compared to my first 16 miler, it was just so comfy and easy. That's why I've never been a fan of the peak mileage programs even though I do them like a good little sheeple. Big grin I think I could kick some serious butt on a 1/2 marathon right now having gone so far over on mileage. I bet I'd do a lot better than I did peaking out at 10 miles prior to the race. Just some things I think about.

                  Stacy
                  I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://www.BlakeHillHouse.com

                  BeeRunB


                    Remember, I do nothing hard in training whatsoever, hence I don't really have anything to taper from. I get all of my hard workouts from races.
                    The key sentence. Jesse is keeping everything in training sub-MAF, plus has been doing it for awhile now at high total volume (counting bike, swim). He done lots of marathons and knows himself well, what works and what doesn't. If you are allowing your medium long and long runs to go substantially over MAF (Maffetone's anearobic), they might feel okay right now (due to prior true Low-HR training), but the stress/training load will accumulate, and you will need time to recover before the big race, and also in your training in general. I've seen more than a few people who have gone anaerobic in their marathon training, increasing their training loads greatly and too fast, and they end up injured before the race. There's a huge difference in training load between a sub-MAF 15 or 20 miler and one that leaves MAF behind early in the run. A 15-miler can have the same training load as a 20 if you're not careful. If you're going to express your inner Jesse, staying under MAF might be the best idea, since that is what the outer Jesse actually does. I've always been fine when staying under MAF, and have been able to push some limits. I've run into trouble only when I've tried to push the limits while running anaerobically at the same time. If you've gone anaerobic, then a taper of some length might be wise. No matter the choice, experience will bring self-knowledge, sometimes nicely, sometimes painfully. --Jimmy
                    Shiksa


                      The key sentence. Jesse is keeping everything in training sub-MAF, plus has been doing it for awhile now at high total volume (counting bike, swim). He done lots of marathons and knows himself well, what works and what doesn't.
                      Absolutely. That makes complete sense. I will not overlook that. I plan a 10ish day taper. No idea what that will translate to on race day. It's all a big mystery for me. I'm looking forward to all MAF and sub-MAF work after November.

                      Stacy
                      I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://www.BlakeHillHouse.com


                      run-easy-race-hard

                        Yeah, Jimmy, I do agree. I'm pretty strict about staying under MAF, but many let things climb at the end, in which case more stresses are accumulated. One really has to listen to his or her body to know what kind of toll is being taken.
                        lowgear1


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                          Preto


                            I echo the sentiment: great stuff! The experience and wisdom that is shared on this forum is invaluable for those of us that are getting into LHR training. Thanks! I have stayed strictly under MAF for almost all of my long runs. Ran 22 two Saturdays ago and averaged MAF -8. Occasionally I'll finish the last few miles of a long run at marathon pace or slightly faster but I never feel wasted or fatigued afterward. I will probably shoot for a one-week taper based on how well I've felt over the past year of training below MAF. Thanks again for the help!
                              All right, sorry to inject some geekiness into this, but there is a study that suggests that a runner's muscles actually get stronger during a 3-week taper. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16614353 It's kind of weird and I know it's a study and that there are 10,000 reasons why it can be distinguished from the real world of well trained runners. Still, it's something. Unlike Senor Jesse, I feel like I need the 3-week taper. But I'm no longer a strict LHR guy. I think 1 week is crazy, but I like green jello.
                                I'm with Jimmy (mostly). I fail to really comprehend how not tapering can make for your best performance. I know it "works" for Jesse, but honestly he doesn't train for marathons. He doesn't do tempo runs, track intervals, or marathon paced miles during long runs. His mileage is almost always very high, with no recovery weeks. Of course his PR's are after high weeks...almost every week is a really high week. To the best of my knowledge, since he has been HR training, he has never specifically completed, say, a 16 week marathon regimine with speedwork, etc. My goal race for months now has been ONE marathon. All I have before that race is the Army 10 miler, and I'm likely not going to even race that all out. So...there really isn't anything to compare against. Nothing against you, of course Jesse, but I just feel like what you do and the results aren't something that the vast majority of people would find beneficial in order to run their best marathon. I would also be shocked if you didn't set a large PR for a marathon if you trained exclusively for it for 3 or 4 months, including speedwork. Lastly, I read not long ago that many elite runners are tapering less than they did in years past. They reduce mileage of course, but not as drastically. They do cut intensity back a fair bit, especially the last week.
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