Low HR Training

1

Complete newbie to low HR training plz help (Read 26 times)

Jari65


    Hi I have been running around 6years starting late in life 44. After being injured I came across the maffetone method on the web and it brought me here . I know there's lots of info saying it's frustrating g at first but I didn't realise just how frustrating it is !!! I only started this yesterday so very new I find I can run for only 50 m before my HR monitor starts to beep  at 130 (180-50) so I walk and allow my HR to drop back to 110 then set off again my question is do you just run normally until you reach your target and then walk  and repeat Ive tried a very slow jog which makes my knees ache and also I've tried really upping my cadence with very small steps but both push my HR back above 130 what's the best way to slow down ?? Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated

    Jan

    BeeRunB


      Hi Jan, welcome to the forum. 

       

      At first, It's a choice between walking or shortening your stride to keep your heart rate at MAF or below. Your body should get used to a shorter stride after awhile. I'm able to run pretty slow when I need to (17:00-18:00 pace no problem). Either way, your aerobic system will start to build, and before you know it, you'll be getting faster at the same heart rate, and you can lengthen your stride. That's the name of the game: get faster at MAF, and stay healthy.  Ive been able to get faster running at MAF from a period of just long brisk walks, so I know walking won't hurt you, but will only help. A walk-run interval method is a great way to rebuild.

       

      It can be frustrating at first for some, but it doesn't have to be, if one can understand that the slowness is not only temporary, but also indicative that one's aerobic system is deficient, and this type of work is needed, especially if you've been injured or overtrained.

       

      Good luck to you. Come over to the daily thread and keep us posted on your progress and training runs. 

      Jari65


        Jimmy b thanks soo much for your reply I really appreciate it just another question I can maintain a run under my maf HR of 130 on a treadmill would I be better sticking to the treadmill or run / walking outside ??

        thanks again

        Jan

        maff test tomorrow on the track Smile

        BeeRunB


          Jimmy b thanks soo much for your reply I really appreciate it just another question I can maintain a run under my maf HR of 130 on a treadmill would I be better sticking to the treadmill or run / walking outside ??

          thanks again

          Jan

          maff test tomorrow on the track Smile

           

          It is easier to run on a TM as it takes out all the little hills and wind. You can still the the job done outside, though it takes more patience in the early going.  I run a lot on the TM due to time constraints, and sometimes the hot weather here in Georgia.

           

          I prefer MAF tests on a treadmill a it lessens the variables that affect HR and pace (like wind, sun, and loose pit bulls).

          Docket_Rocket


            I run 7-10 months on the TM (don't get me started about my neverending summers) and I can keep my MAF for any pace except a 5K.  If you want to start doing that and see if your endurance improves, start there and then move outside in 4 weeks.  I trained in 2015 for 4 marathons strictly on the TM (see above for hellish weather comment) and I ran my 4 fastest marathons that year, so you can still improve on the TM.

             

            If you want, maybe try both?  Do some TM running without any walking at MAF, and the next day a run/walk outside, rinse and repeat.


            Welcome!

            Damaris

             

            As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

            Fundraising Page

            Docket_Rocket


               

              It is easier to run on a TM as it takes out all the little hills and wind. You can still the the job done outside, though it takes more patience in the early going.  I run a lot on the TM due to time constraints, and sometimes the hot weather here in Georgia.

               

              I prefer MAF tests on a treadmill a it lessens the variables that affect HR and pace (like wind, sun, and loose pit bulls).

               

              I had not thought of that.  But my MAF tests would be super fast on the TM, though (as compared to my outside weather).  Maybe next time I go somewhere not hot, I can do a MAF test outside.  LOL.

              Damaris

               

              As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

              Fundraising Page

              Jari65


                Hi jimmyb

                ive done my test today chose the Tm to do this ,here goes I'd like to hear what you think Smile I ran for 60 mins and completed a distance of 7.49km  AV hr = 125. Max hr = 132 just let it drift for a couple of seconds over my 130

                Km.       Pace

                1.          8:02

                2           8:08

                3.         8:01

                4.         7:58

                5.        8:02

                6.        8:06

                7.        8:01

                0.49.    7:55

                i must admit it felt better than stopping and starting outside

                appreciate any feedback

                jan

                Jari65


                  Hi all

                  jyst another quick question if I don't have enough time to fit in my full run could I do it in two halves but on the same day i.e. Morning and evening ??

                  thanks for any advice

                  jan

                  wishing everyone a happy Christmas from the uk x

                  runnerclay


                  Consistently Slow

                    Hi all

                    jyst another quick question if I don't have enough time to fit in my full run could I do it in two halves but on the same day i.e. Morning and evening ??

                    thanks for any advice

                    jan

                    wishing everyone a happy Christmas from the uk x

                    Yes. Morning miles or night miles .It just adds to your week.

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                     SCHEDULE 2016--

                     The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                    SD_BlackHills


                      Hi guys,

                       

                      I'm also a newbie to this (about 4 weeks in) and I can confirm that I'm also dealing with the frustratingly slow run/walk periods.  It happens to me almost every single workout.  I'm hoping this will go away over time.  The worst part for me is the appearance that I'm not a very good runner.  Vanity is a bad thing when getting started with this type of training.  

                       

                      I've also been doing a mix of treadmill and outside work due to the snow and sub-zero temperatures here in South Dakota.  For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to matter in my case where I am.  I'm run/walking in every scenario.  The good news is, that after 4 weeks, that the run/walking only seems to happen in one of 2 conditions:

                       

                      1.  I've been on my feet for a long time (at least 8 to 10 miles in).

                      2.  I toe the line of the upper limit for too long and probably exceed MAF just long enough (along with slow feedback from HRM) to get a sudden spike in HR well above MAF which requires walking.

                       

                      With practice, I think it's reasonable to expect both of those will go away.

                      BeeRunB


                        Hi guys,

                         

                        I'm also a newbie to this (about 4 weeks in) and I can confirm that I'm also dealing with the frustratingly slow run/walk periods.  It happens to me almost every single workout.  I'm hoping this will go away over time.  The worst part for me is the appearance that I'm not a very good runner.  Vanity is a bad thing when getting started with this type of training.  

                         

                        I've also been doing a mix of treadmill and outside work due to the snow and sub-zero temperatures here in South Dakota.  For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to matter in my case where I am.  I'm run/walking in every scenario.  The good news is, that after 4 weeks, that the run/walking only seems to happen in one of 2 conditions:

                         

                        1.  I've been on my feet for a long time (at least 8 to 10 miles in).

                        2.  I toe the line of the upper limit for too long and probably exceed MAF just long enough (along with slow feedback from HRM) to get a sudden spike in HR well above MAF which requires walking.

                         

                        With practice, I think it's reasonable to expect both of those will go away.

                         

                        Iron-man champ, Mark Allen, perhaps the most famous athlete coached by Maffetone, tells the story of how before he started the method, he'd trained around 5:20 per mile. When he put on the HRM, and ran at MAF, it slowed him to about 8:30 per mile. He walked hills to keep at the HR. His training partners left him in the dust, made fun of him. It took something like a year and a half or so and he was training again at 5:20 but at MAF heart rate. His training partners could no longer keep up with him, and he was barely working.  He credits this method, along with spiritual work he did with a shaman type in Hawaii, for his 6 iron-man titles.

                         

                        It takes time, but if you improve your MAF pace by a few minutes, it's going to pay off big time.

                        SD_BlackHills


                          Wow those are some pretty unbelievable, world class results.  Imagine running 5:20 miles comfortably.  I wonder how long he could maintain that??  I assume that was his average pace during Maffetone's recommended 5 mile MAF test?

                           

                          Personally, I ran my first competitive race since high school about 2 years ago (I'm 39 years old).  Almost every workout I've done except for recovery days have been done at high levels of effort.  I've run a few 5K's, marathon relays and 3 marathons in that time frame.  For my most recent marathon, I used the FIRST (Run Less, Run Faster) program and was able to hit the prescribed training paces almost exactly each week.  FIRST prescribes the following each week:

                          1.  One day of intervals
                          2.  One day of tempo run
                          3.  One long run of fairly hard effort 
                          4.  2 days of cross training
                          5.  2 days of rest

                          Despite hitting nearly all the training targets, I missed my target time by 9 minutes, 25 seconds, most of which I lost in the last 10K.

                           

                          So basically, low HR training is the exact opposite of what I just recently tried.  After the first day of low HR training, it became obvious that my aerobic base is admittedly awful.  I'm committed to sticking to it.  It will be fascinating to see what my own personal MAF pace will be after 6 months to a year of this.  I know it won't be 5:20 but I suspect it will be way faster than what it is right now (roughly 9:00 on average).  My average pace in the marathon was 7:25, including the bonk at the end.  If my MAF even gets remotely close to that, I would think I should be able to beat my PR with ease (relatively speaking!).