Low HR Training

123

New member: my (somewhat long) story and a couple of questions (Read 3590 times)

Nagendra


    Hi everyone,

         I've been following the threads, albeit silently, for a few months and now would like to share my experience and ask the gurus here a couple of questions. But first a bit of background: I am a 38 year old male and ran a couple of marathons before, last one being the Vancouver marathon with Team in Training in 2005. I finished it in 4:31 hours (my PR) but long runs have always been a problem for me - I needed at least a couple of days to recover. I tried to train for a couple of marathons later on but had to drop out due to injuries - mostly knee and hamstring. So I have been doing only short runs on and off till 2010.

     

        I came across the LHR method (and this forum) towards the end of 2010 - so promptly bought myself an HRM (Polar FT-7) as a new year gift and started experimenting with it. I did not any MAF test etc. - just ran to see how it feels. Much to my surprise, I realized that I am not getting hurt or even feeling tired! So after a couple of months, I decided to jump into the deep end: signed up for the San Francisco marathon (on July 31) and started seriously training for it from March 1 onwards. In addition, I also finished reading the Big Book on Endurance Training and Racing, and completely changed my diet as well (which I believe had a huge positive impact on my overall energy levels).

     

       My MAF is 137 (180 -age - 5); during my runs, I do my best to keep the heart rate between 130 and 135 (although it does suddenly jump to 140 for a few seconds every once in a while). I had a couple of health hiccups during this period (a minor ear surgery late March and allergies in May - I live in New York) that temporarily set back my times but overall, the progress has been quite good so far:

    1. I do not do MAF test per se, but track my first mile (after warmup) on easy runs, which is 2-4 loops around the Central Park reservoir. This came down from 13:20 minutes early March to 10:35 minutes last week; am hoping to get some more improvement over the next few weeks!
    2. I also a couple of hill sessions (which also covers for my speed training downhill) every week - about 8-10 laps on the Northwest hill in Central Park. My uphill/downhill pace came down from 5:00/3:30 in April to 4:20/3:10 last week
    3. Today I finished a (slightly more than) 16 mile long run in 3:38 hours - first six miles after warm up took 69 minutes (11:30 min average pace); at the end of the run (water only; no food) I felt I could still go for a couple of more miles!

       So overall, I am feeling quite confident about this. And much thanks to all of you for your tips! I do a have a couple of questions on training and one on racing:

    1. I am planning to do another 3-4 long runs of 4 to 4.5 hours prior to tapering off - however, I am not sure I will be able to get to 20-22 mile runs, which is what I was told I need to get to during my last long runs (prior to a marathon). Should I ignore that piece of advice, or try for a five hour run or increase my pace (and go above MAF) for any of the runs?
    2. I have not done any anaerobic runs (i.e., above MAF) except for the downhill runs. Should I incorporate a few one mile runs just to see what pace I can generate at MAF+20?
    3. For the race itself, I followed a number of threads here and am aware that I need to go with my feel; but I am an absolute beginner in LHR and have no idea how to caliberate this. Based on the tables Jimmy posted, it seems to me that I can aim for a sub-4 hour marathon (which would be my dream). I am currently thinking that I should shoot for 9 minute miles, subject to the constraint that I am feeling good and that my HR does not exceed 160 in the first 10 miles, 170 in the next 10 miles and 180 in the last six miles (I do not know what my max HR is, so I used the formula posted by Dr. Phil here). Does this sound reasonable?

    Much thanks in advance to everyone!

    Nagendra

      nice training!


      my opinion:

      1) the tables may or may not work for you. I would not try to base marathon pace solely on such tables
      2) you 'd be better off to know your maxHR but even better if you know your LTHR before trying to guess what HR ceiling to set in your race.

      the MARCO calculator doesn't look too bad: http://feelrace.com/fr.pl?th=MARCO

        Hi everyone,

             I've been following the threads, albeit silently, for a few months and now would like to share my experience and ask the gurus here a couple of questions. But first a bit of background: I am a 38 year old male and ran a couple of marathons before, last one being the Vancouver marathon with Team in Training in 2005. I finished it in 4:31 hours (my PR) but long runs have always been a problem for me - I needed at least a couple of days to recover. I tried to train for a couple of marathons later on but had to drop out due to injuries - mostly knee and hamstring. So I have been doing only short runs on and off till 2010.

         

            I came across the LHR method (and this forum) towards the end of 2010 - so promptly bought myself an HRM (Polar FT-7) as a new year gift and started experimenting with it. I did not any MAF test etc. - just ran to see how it feels. Much to my surprise, I realized that I am not getting hurt or even feeling tired! So after a couple of months, I decided to jump into the deep end: signed up for the San Francisco marathon (on July 31) and started seriously training for it from March 1 onwards. In addition, I also finished reading the Big Book on Endurance Training and Racing, and completely changed my diet as well (which I believe had a huge positive impact on my overall energy levels).

         

           My MAF is 137 (180 -age - 5); during my runs, I do my best to keep the heart rate between 130 and 135 (although it does suddenly jump to 140 for a few seconds every once in a while). I had a couple of health hiccups during this period (a minor ear surgery late March and allergies in May - I live in New York) that temporarily set back my times but overall, the progress has been quite good so far:

        1. I do not do MAF test per se, but track my first mile (after warmup) on easy runs, which is 2-4 loops around the Central Park reservoir. This came down from 13:20 minutes early March to 10:35 minutes last week; am hoping to get some more improvement over the next few weeks!
        2. I also a couple of hill sessions (which also covers for my speed training downhill) every week - about 8-10 laps on the Northwest hill in Central Park. My uphill/downhill pace came down from 5:00/3:30 in April to 4:20/3:10 last week
        3. Today I finished a (slightly more than) 16 mile long run in 3:38 hours - first six miles after warm up took 69 minutes (11:30 min average pace); at the end of the run (water only; no food) I felt I could still go for a couple of more miles!

           So overall, I am feeling quite confident about this. And much thanks to all of you for your tips! I do a have a couple of questions on training and one on racing:

        1. I am planning to do another 3-4 long runs of 4 to 4.5 hours prior to tapering off - however, I am not sure I will be able to get to 20-22 mile runs, which is what I was told I need to get to during my last long runs (prior to a marathon). Should I ignore that piece of advice, or try for a five hour run or increase my pace (and go above MAF) for any of the runs?
        2. I have not done any anaerobic runs (i.e., above MAF) except for the downhill runs. Should I incorporate a few one mile runs just to see what pace I can generate at MAF+20?
        3. For the race itself, I followed a number of threads here and am aware that I need to go with my feel; but I am an absolute beginner in LHR and have no idea how to caliberate this. Based on the tables Jimmy posted, it seems to me that I can aim for a sub-4 hour marathon (which would be my dream). I am currently thinking that I should shoot for 9 minute miles, subject to the constraint that I am feeling good and that my HR does not exceed 160 in the first 10 miles, 170 in the next 10 miles and 180 in the last six miles (I do not know what my max HR is, so I used the formula posted by Dr. Phil here). Does this sound reasonable?

        Much thanks in advance to everyone!

        Nagendra

         

        Welcome, Nagendra! Cool

        Glad you unlurked.

        You've been making some real nice progress. Nearly 3 minutes of progress in aerobic speed is awesome.

         

        Looks like you have 8 weeks until your marathon. You've built a much better base by this point as opposed to March. You'll be much more empowered come marathon time if you know a few things, and know your options. I'll give you the best I have on your questions, and hopefully some of the others here with marathon experience will chime in with their two cents.

         

        1) On long runs. Both Jack Daniels and Dr. Phil recommend running by duration and not miles. The idea being that you shouldn't be doing long runs any longer than an elite does. The body know duration  and not miles. An elite can cover a 22 mile long run in 2-2.5 hours. The same distance might take a first marathon amateur  4 hours or more, which in their minds invites OT and injuries. You will get the needed stimulus in the 2.5 hours that you need. But there is a mental aspect to the marathon. If you are going to run on in 4 hours, then 2.5 hours might not mentally prepare you. Dr. Phil doesn't ignore the mental aspect and suggests making up the extra time with walking before and after your run. In your case, you would walk 45 minutes before and 45 minutes after.

         

        Others, as you know, suggest running by miles and using higher HR zones.

         

        For transparency, I ran my last marathon in 2008--my 8th. For each marathon I ran by miles, working up to 22 miles. Once I got into MAF training at the end of 2005, I would do my ealry long runs at MAF, some taking 4 hours, but about 8-10 weeks out, I would run long runs in a more progressive fashion, using a wider HR zone. I would sometimes use 70% HRR as a peak HR, and sometimes Pfitzingers 78% HRR. Sometimes I would run the last few miles at marathon race pace. I would get these long runs done a bit quicker. Closer to 3 hours.than 4.

         

        I would have my aerobic base period, then this anaerobic phase 8-10 weeks out, that included these long runs and an occasional LT tempo. I always included marathon race pace tempo runs. I'd also do some shorter races in that 8-10 weeks.

         

        I ran my best marathons with this set up.

         

        Since the beginning of 2009, I've been using the duration philosophy. I had a bout with OT in the fall of 2008 (due to life stress and not completely understanding the importance of MAF tests and what they were telling me). Since then, I'm staunch about adjusting training load with MAF tests, and have been slowly working my way back during some high stress periods and adjustments to a new life in a very hot place (moved to the deep south from cool New England). I've found I can keep improving on less miles than I thought. I plan to run my next marathon on 2.5 hour long runs, no matter the mileage.  Until then, I can't really vouch for it. Though I've seen nice progress in aerobic speed using just 2 hour long runs. Pretty much the same as you've seen running 3+ hours.

         

        You might experiment with a few long runs using 70% HRR or MAF +20 as a peak HR. Just to get some faster paces in. You might find you'll finish the 20 mile long run in 3:30 or so.

         

         

        2) In my world, anything I run over MAF is anaerobic. The long runs at 70% HRR are anaerobic. Tempos, fartlek, etc. I believe it is important to include some time at marathon race pace. Also to do a few shorter  races. Both of these will give you a better idea of what pace is possible for you in the marathon. Most importantly, your anaerobic system will sharpen, and also your aerobic system will get a boost. They will balance out.

         

        3) Running by feel is all very fine if you have developed your sense of feel and know exactly what your marathon pace feels like and how to make adjustments on body signals. It's very easy to go out too quickly in a marathon due to excitement and the herd effect. Your sense of feel might be a bit askew. Especially in the last 6 miles. Down the stretch all you feel is tiredness.

         

        Feel should be informed with knowledge of what kind of pace you can actually run. If you plan a 9:00 pace (3:56 marathon), then you should be able to run a 5k at 7:30ish pace or better (I go with better),  a 10k at 8:00 or better, and a half marathon at 8:30 or better. You should be able to average a 9:00 pace in a marathon race tempo run run in a zone around your best possible marathon average heart rate.

         

        The MAF chart I made up is still unsubstantiated, and probably will remain so. There is just not enough data to prove it is close for every one in relation to their aerobic speed. It was close with mine, but that's about all I can say. It should only be used as an added tool, comparing your own times as you go. Just using my MAF tests, I know where they need to be in order to run (i.e) 3:30 or better.Over time, you will see how you personal MAF tests correlate with your marathon times.

         

        To inform your decisions for pacing the marathon, I suggest the following:

         

        1) Know your MHR. It can help. If you pop a race time along with your MHR into the Team Oregon Pace Wizard

        it will give you a best possible average HR for a marathon. I find it to be very close and realistic.

         

        2) Run  a few marathon race pace tempos. Use heart rate. Now, it's up to you what you want to do, but personally I like to make these runs at least 7-10 miles.

         

        If you plan to run your marathon by heart rate, you can play with any kind of zone that averages your best possible marathon average heart rate. E.G. If you were doing 10 miles you could run the first 5 in a ten beat zone below, and the second in a ten beat zone above.

        If your best ave HR is 170 then

         

        miles1-5: 160-170 bpm

        miles 6-10: 170-180

         

        If you plan to run by pace, then you can use a 10 to 15 beat zone below and see what pace it gives you. It would mirror the 1st ten miles of your marathon. This is a good indicator of what you might be able to do. If you aren't running as fast as 9:00 pace in this zone, then it's probably

         

        3) Run a few races. A 5 or 10k. If you choose longer like a half marathon, don't do it too close to the marathon.  Take the times from these races and pop them into the Team Oregon Pace WIzard and see what it gives you for best possible marathon pace.This information, along with the MRP, and your MAF test speed should give you an idea.

         

        ***important: always record temperatures for your training runs and races. If you plan to run by pace at your marathon, you have to take temperature into account. You might have run all your indicator runs in 50°F, and get to the race and it is 70°, and you would have to make an adjustment to your plan. If you're running with a heart rate plan, just use the same one. 172 bpm is 172 bpm.

         

         

        If you plan to run the marathon by heart rate, the MARCO calculator looks like a fine tool as Cmon2 suggested. I do believe you need to know your MHR for it to be effective. Don't use the 220-age. Get it at the end of a race or during a training run. After  a warm-up and a hard effort, you have to push as hard as possible for the last quarter mile or more to the finish (if a race).

         

        IMPORTANT: Always do some form of MAF test. If  you aerobic speed starts to plummet or plateau for a seriously long time, pay attention to this and make adjustments.

         

         

        There are members of this forum who run by HR who will have some good suggestions. Hopefully they will see this and offer some.

         

        Good luck with your experiments. Knowledge is power and hopefully my suggestions will help you gain a bit more knowledge about what is possible for you eight weeks from now. Keep posting!

         

        --Jimmy Cool

        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

         

           Feel should be informed with knowledge of what kind of pace you can actually run. If you plan a 9:00 pace (3:56 marathon), then you should be able to run a 5k at 7:30ish pace or better (I go with better),  a 10k at 8:00 or better, and a half marathon at 8:30 or better. You should be able to average a 9:00 pace in a marathon race tempo run run in a zone around your best possible marathon average heart rate.

           

          The MAF chart I made up is still unsubstantiated, and probably will remain so. There is just not enough data to prove it is close for every one in relation to their aerobic speed. It was close with mine, but that's about all I can say. It should only be used as an added tool, comparing your own times as you go. Just using my MAF tests, I know where they need to be in order to run (i.e) 3:30 or better.Over time, you will see how you personal MAF tests correlate with your marathon times.

           

          To inform your decisions for pacing the marathon, I suggest the following:

           

          1) Know your MHR. It can help. If you pop a race time along with your MHR into the Team Oregon Pace Wizard

          it will give you a best possible average HR for a marathon. I find it to be very close and realistic.

           

          2) Run  a few marathon race pace tempos. Use heart rate. Now, it's up to you what you want to do, but personally I like to make these runs at least 7-10 miles.

           

           

           

           

           

          yeah, the charts are not perfect but that's not anyone's fault. it's just that formulas won't describe everyone perfectly because HR profile and/or aerobic conditioning can be very different between two runners.

           

          the marathon seems to be an especially sensitive distance, in terms of possible incorrect predictions and in terms of amount of suffering after the wrong decision Smile. this is why I said above not to rely 100% on tables or anything.

           

          I looked up the oregon thing again, as the last time I saw it was over a year ago or so, so the heart rates it suggested meant nothing to me(at that time I did not really have many races done yet). now with my race results and average HR's, I find that this HR calculator doesn't work too well for me... it seems to assume too much of an average HR drop over the distances from short to long distances. entering 192 avg for HM, it suggests I could do 10K at 200, well, I definitely can't.. it's more like 193-194 for 10K. also, entering 199 avg for a shorter race, it suggests 185 for HM, again I find that too much of a drop.

           

          otoh, I compared the MARCO calculator with your 3:30 marathon HR splits and it was sometimes very close to your HR splits - not all the time, but I found it pretty good Smile still it may not work out for everyone...

            Today I finished a (slightly more than) 16 mile long run in 3:38 hours - first six miles after warm up took 69 minutes (11:30 min average pace); at the end of the run (water only; no food) I felt I could still go for a couple of more miles!

             

             

             

            I forgot to ask before - were the last 10miles in 2:29 i.e. at 14:50 pace? or did that total time include the warmup?

            Nagendra


              Jimmy,

                 This is very helpful and clears up a lot of things. You are right, I still have about 8 weeks left before marathon and can squeeze in 3-4 long runs. So in summary, I will try the following:

              1. Focus on time during my long runs and not on distance. I will get at least one if not two 4:30 hour long runs. This would include about 45 min of warmup+cooldown, so actual run time at MAF would be 3:45 or so - about the marathon time if I am shooting for 9 minute miles
              2. I will continue on aerobic training (including my long runs) until my last long run i.e., three weeks before marathon
              3. During the tapering phase (last three weeks before marathon) I will do a couple of tempo runs (1 mile or 5K) to figure out what HR is needed for 9 minute miles
              4. During the tapering phase I will also do a mini-long run (8-10 miles) at marathon pace to see how I will hold up

               

              cmon2,

                  The run also included warmup and cooldown. Total breakdown was as follows:

              1. Mile 1 (warmup): 22 minutes
              2. Miles 2-7: 66 minutes
              3. Miles 8-13: 75 minutes
              4. Miles 14-15: 26 minutes
              5. Mile 16 (cooldown): 30 minutes

               

              Nagendra

              Tennesotans


                What a perfectly timed thread (for my needs anyway)!

                 

                Thanks for taking the time to type out such detailed answers -- I think you've answered my every

                question concerning my early marathon training (I'm in week two, racing in October). My long run

                is still pretty low (10 miles this next Monday)... increasing every other week until about 18 miles.

                 

                I will review my plan with this new info in mind Smile Smile

                  yeah, the charts are not perfect but that's not anyone's fault. it's just that formulas won't describe everyone perfectly because HR profile and/or aerobic conditioning can be very different between two runners.

                   

                  the marathon seems to be an especially sensitive distance, in terms of possible incorrect predictions and in terms of amount of suffering after the wrong decision Smile. this is why I said above not to rely 100% on tables or anything.

                   

                  I looked up the oregon thing again, as the last time I saw it was over a year ago or so, so the heart rates it suggested meant nothing to me(at that time I did not really have many races done yet). now with my race results and average HR's, I find that this HR calculator doesn't work too well for me... it seems to assume too much of an average HR drop over the distances from short to long distances. entering 192 avg for HM, it suggests I could do 10K at 200, well, I definitely can't.. it's more like 193-194 for 10K. also, entering 199 avg for a shorter race, it suggests 185 for HM, again I find that too much of a drop.

                   

                  otoh, I compared the MARCO calculator with your 3:30 marathon HR splits and it was sometimes very close to your HR splits - not all the time, but I found it pretty good Smile still it may not work out for everyone...

                   

                  On the Team Oregon Pace Wizard, I just enter the MHR, age, and most recent race. I'm not sure if you are adding something in something extra near the bottom in that new OPTIONAL sections they put in, which skews it (says I can run 201 when I pop in 200). For MHR of 200, entering only in MHR, age, and a race performance in one of the top 3 boxes it gives me:

                   

                  2m........... 200
                  5 km.........194
                  5 mi..........189

                  10 km.......187
                  15 km.......182
                  10 mi........181
                  20 km.......179
                  HalfMthn....179
                  25 km........177
                  30 km.........175
                  Marathon....172

                   

                   

                   I averaged 173 at the Sugarloaf Marathon,  187 at a 10k last year. I average about 190-191 in 5k's, but I'm not yet very good at 5k's as I don't think I've figured out just how hard I can push (I don't  run them often enough). I feel most of my discomfort in the second half of a 5k, which means I probably could go a little harder in the beginning. The charts are like Hadd's "best possible marathon heart rates". You have to know what your MHR really is, be in your best health and fitness,  and also be able to pace yourself correctly. Try the Pace Wizard again without using the optional section. Just enter one heart rate in the MHR box. Post your results.

                   

                  Interesting that the MARCO calculator was close to my heart rate at Sugarloaf. I ran that race by a pace plan, not heart rate. I'm a big believer in starting out the marathon slower than goal average pace.

                   

                  Thanks, C.  Good stuff. Cool

                  --Jimmy

                  log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

                   

                    Jimmy,

                       This is very helpful and clears up a lot of things. You are right, I still have about 8 weeks left before marathon and can squeeze in 3-4 long runs. So in summary, I will try the following:

                    1. Focus on time during my long runs and not on distance. I will get at least one if not two 4:30 hour long runs. This would include about 45 min of warmup+cooldown, so actual run time at MAF would be 3:45 or so - about the marathon time if I am shooting for 9 minute miles
                    2. I will continue on aerobic training (including my long runs) until my last long run i.e., three weeks before marathon
                    3. During the tapering phase (last three weeks before marathon) I will do a couple of tempo runs (1 mile or 5K) to figure out what HR is needed for 9 minute miles
                    4. During the tapering phase I will also do a mini-long run (8-10 miles) at marathon pace to see how I will hold up

                     

                     

                    Nagendra

                     

                    Why are you going to run 4:30, when you plan to run less than 4 hours in the marathon? That's a lot of time on your feet.

                     

                    Do you plan to run the race by HR or pace? If by heart rate then you don't need to know your pace really, it doesn't hurt to know, everything helps, but if you are following a heart rate plan, you just have to hit the heart rates and let the plan control your pace.

                     

                    I suggest that you get your tempos in before the taper. The taper is about recovering while maintaining your fitness. Alll the work is done, and you won't get any faster in those last three weeks. A few brief runs with some MRP in them are fine ( a few miles), but the taper is about recovering. SO, be careful. The idea is to get your anaerobic work in the weeks before the taper. If you do any at all during the taper, it has to be very minimal.

                     

                    If you plan to run by pace, I suggest you don't figure out what HR 9:00 will give you, see what pace the marathon HR gives you. That's the indicator. If you let 9:00 dictate your marathon HR, you might be going into the race with not only too fast a pace, but also too high of a heart rate. Knowing your MHR is very important. Once you do, an easy thing to do is this:  put the info in the MARCO calculator, then follow the heart rate plan for your tempo. If your tempo is 7 miles, then use the first 7 miles of the Marco caclulator plan for the tempo run. If it is 10 miles, use the first 10 miles of the plan. The average pace for the run will give you a good pace to start your race out with, and will be about 10 seconds slower than an average pace you can possibly do for the marathon.

                     

                    If you are doing long runs every other week, then you have time for 3. Some people like to throw in a few miles of marathon pace or HR at the end of a few of the long runs. It trains you mentally to hold pace while tired.

                     

                    Good luck with whatever you choose to do, Nagendra. Whatever it is you do choose, just make sure you get a proper taper in.

                     

                    Cool

                    --Jimmy

                    log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

                     

                       

                       I averaged 173 at the Sugarloaf Marathon,  187 at a 10k last year. I average about 190-191 in 5k's, but I'm not yet very good at 5k's as I don't think I've figured out just how hard I can push (I don't  run them often enough). I feel most of my discomfort in the second half of a 5k, which means I probably could go a little harder in the beginning. The charts are like Hadd's "best possible marathon heart rates". You have to know what your MHR really is, be in your best health and fitness,  and also be able to pace yourself correctly. Try the Pace Wizard again without using the optional section. Just enter one heart rate in the MHR box. Post your results.

                       

                      Interesting that the MARCO calculator was close to my heart rate at Sugarloaf. I ran that race by a pace plan, not heart rate. I'm a big believer in starting out the marathon slower than goal average pace.

                       

                      Thanks, C.  Good stuff. Cool

                      --Jimmy

                       

                       

                      thanks, I tried that (entered no optional stuff, just maxHR), but it still drops the HR's too fast for the distances. says 205 for 5k, and 197 for 10k, 188 for HM. very far from reality for me.

                       

                      btw, I only ran one 5K race so far but I felt good in the first half and that pace was too fast because I could not maintain it for the second half of it. (NOT due to discomfort, simply too much acid in my legs.) so maybe you are not doing your 5K's wrong. I think it's the race adrenaline that makes the first half feel good. Smile

                        thanks, I tried that (entered no optional stuff, just maxHR), but it still drops the HR's too fast for the distances. says 205 for 5k, and 197 for 10k, 188 for HM. very far from reality for me.

                         

                        btw, I only ran one 5K race so far but I felt good in the first half and that pace was too fast because I could not maintain it for the second half of it. so maybe you are not doing your 5K's wrong. I think it's the race adrenaline that makes the first half feel good. Smile

                         I believe 5k's take practice.

                         

                        C, are these your heart rates from the Pace wizard?

                         

                        2 mi.....211
                        5 km....205
                        5 mi.....199
                        10 km...197
                        15 km....192
                        10 mi.....191
                        20 km....189
                        HalfMthn....188
                        25 km......186
                        30 km.....184
                        Marathon .....181

                         

                        Just trying to see and understand the full picture of what you are saying.

                         

                        Currently, the highest ave HR you've seen for a 10k is 193-94 (not far off considering all the possible variables including being kind of new to racing)

                         

                        Is 192 the highest average HR for a half marathon that you've seen (average for the entire 13 miles)?

                         

                        You have any other race info?

                         

                        I'm keeping in my mind your Salvador Dali heart rate landscape and that pace calculators are not part of our bodies (yet).

                         

                        I'm wondering looking at your marathon HR if that is possible. Not saying it isn't, but I think about HAdd saying the highest average HR for anyone over 193 (including 200) in a marathon is 175-77. Just various things floating in my head bumping into each other.

                         

                        --Jimmy

                         

                        p.s. Please excuse the slight hijack, Nagendra. I hope it's okay.

                        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

                         

                          yes, those numbers are what it gave me. (I managed to get the HR to 211 once, recently. before that I thought it was 208 for maxHR.)


                          yes, the highest avg HR for 10K was 193 for me. 193 also for 12K race (that was my first race). 191 for the hill race both last year and this year. and yes, 192 for HM. and for that 5K that I ran too fast, it was 193. not sure why only 193. my legs went crazy "acid" after I passed 198 halfway in the race.

                           

                          I actually thought of another race now that went slightly different: last summer, 199 avg for 4.5miles in 90 degrees heat. I think the heat was why the HR was so high there. my HR was past 200 for the last 20mins of that race (36mins total). by the end it was 204-205 and I was pretty much dying after 15mins into the race. I mean, after I passed 199-200, I was totally dying for the rest of the race, but my legs did not get anaerobic and this is why I was able to keep going.

                           

                          I have no idea about my marathon HR, it would be nice to know from experience, hehe! one day I'll get there...

                           

                          I think Hadd was wrong in this best marathon HR including 200. I know a girl, she ran a 3:45 marathon with a HR avg of 181. =P

                          (she has a max of 215.)

                           

                          I'll never understand why Hadd did not know that there were people with a LT higher than 175-ish.

                           

                           

                          btw, I like this, hehehe:

                          I'm keeping in my mind your Salvador Dali heart rate landscape and that pace calculators are not part of our bodies (yet). Cool

                           


                          PS: yeah, Nagendra, please excuse us Smile to stay somewhat on topic, maybe it is helpful info on showing how calculators can be one thing and reality another thing.

                            Interesting how your HR's are kind of bunched up. I have a hunch that as you come back to full iron stores and become hemoglobin rich, and as you race more over the years and figure out what it is you can really do and how hard you can push, they will begin to separate and look more like a Pace Wizard Chart.

                             

                            Just a hunch.

                             

                            What's really important is the PR curve! Go get em.Cool

                             

                            --Jimmy

                            log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

                             

                              Interesting how your HR's are kind of bunched up. I have a hunch that as you come back to full iron stores and become hemoglobin rich, and as you race more over the years and figure out what it is you can really do and how hard you can push, they will begin to separate and look more like a Pace Wizard Chart.

                               

                              Just a hunch.

                               

                              What's really important is the PR curve! Go get em.Cool

                               

                              --Jimmy

                               

                              could be. we will see Smile I still doubt that with better iron stores I should only average 188 as best possible HR in half marathon, though. so I think it could be more like, higher averages for 10K/5K Big grin

                                could be. we will see Smile I still doubt that with better iron stores I should only average 188 as best possible HR in half marathon, though. so I think it could be more like, higher averages for 10K/5K Big grin

                                 

                                If you already have measured 192 average heart rate for a half marathon, then think your MHR is probably higher. What I mean is that your HR's for different distances will have more space between them and look more like what the Pace Wizard spread looks like--whatever yours ends up being, it's hard to tell right now. Then again.......did I mention Salvadore Dali?

                                log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

                                 

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