Low HR Training

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Do I need to run even slower? maybe walk?! (Read 433 times)

    Hi everyone. I'm a fairly new runner - still trying to figure out the best way for me to train. I read alot of the information on here for Low HR training, so this morning I thought I would try it out..I'm not sure if I'm just weird or if I'm still not running slow enough.. Some background.. 30yo male. 5'7" 149 lbs. I'd say I'm in fairly good shape overall. I have tested my max heart rate to be approximately 205 (6:40 mile at the end of a 5 mile run). and my resting heart rate (tested in the morning, in bed) is around 52 - 54bpm. So, to be under 70% of my max, I need to run at least under 145bpm, right? This morning, running at 12:00/mile pace, my heart rate was still above 170! Running at that speed I can breathe entirely though my nostrils - in and out - without any difficulty. When I have run at a 10:00 minute/mile pace my heart rate does not seem to be very much higher than the mid 170's. The slowest I could get my heart rate this morning, while still jogging/running.. was 166bpm at ~12:45/mile pace. Is my heart that out of shape? and do I still need to slow down my running?
    Shiksa


      Others will hopefully chime in, but based on what you are saying about your HR, yes you would need to slow down to bring your HR down to below your MAF. This is a time of extreme patience as the whole thing doesn't make 100% sense until you get some time behind you. What I have discovered is that in the beginning, it felt nearly impossible to control my HR. I could go from resting heart rate to MAF in less than a quarter mile. Then, I would have spikes or drift that were barely controlled by walking. I thought I might never be able to control it. That comes with time. I'm definitely still in the "making progress" stage vs. "mind-blowing success" stage. Time has improved my aerobic function and I can pretty much go out and have my HR controlled at my whim. That will happen to you too if you decide to commit to low HR training long term. Welcome to the forum. Smile

      Stacy
      I make no apologies for my liberal use of smiley icons. http://www.BlakeHillHouse.com

        Perfectly normal heart for a "feel" runner. If you want to maximize your health and performance, stick with your MAF, or what ever is your chosen LHR training regime. First few months you go slow, really slow, but run-by-run you start to see the change and your pace improves. Still, as a warning, LHR runners are their own breed. You need patience and you can only whine, I assume, 3 times before your have used your right to whine about pace in this forum. Jimmy can explain the rules better, if he likes. So, MAF gives you 150HR. Take it or leave it. If you take it, welcome Blush. If you leave it, you can return to open forum to bash us HRM geeks Big grin I do hope you choose to take Wink
          I would have to agree with the other 2 posts. When I started (back last November) I was running, walking, running, walking during the workout. By the end of the runs back then I felt like I had done absolutely nothing, I had tons of energy and hardly broke a sweat. Some results I have had though include my maff test has gone done from a 12 minute mile to an 8 minute mile. Stick with it long term and you will see results.
            Take it or leave it. If you take it, welcome Blush. If you leave it, you can return to open forum to bash us HRM geeks Big grin
            I don't think you all are geeks! I've been following that thread and I'm not convinced that they are making their case. Wink I have two friends who have recently started running. Both are super newbies - no past history of running or anything. These are both guys and they have the same approach. Go out and run as fast you can until you can't run anymore. The first guy is now complaining about knee pain. The second guy is complaining about heart/chest pain. I've told them both to slow down. Which they are doing - since they've both given up on running because it's "too hard" and "too painful". I'm not buying the "newbies need to run by feel" argument completely. I used to run competitively, but it was so long ago, I really don't remember how we paced ourselves. Since it was usually team practice, the fact that we were socializing, probably helped to keep us at a slow enough pace so we could talk. Anyway. The logic of LHR just makes sense to me and so I've been quietly learning about it while I get back in to shape. I started Cto5k, but didn't have a HRM, so I just ran at a reasonable pace. Sometimes, especially on hills, I knew that I was pushing harder than LHR training would prescribe. By the time I got my HRM and got it working (garmin! (said like "Newman!"), I had a small base and was finishing up Cto5k. I found my first run with the HRM to be very educational. I basically ran as I had been running and noticed that as long as I was keeping my HR below 140, I was also breathing nicely, on cruise, and feeling good. On hills, if I tried to keep the same pace, my HR would spike up to the high 150s and it correlated with breathlessness and fatigue in my quads. Yes, going by feel, the hills were hard. The HR readings confirmed the feeling. The big difference that I see between simply going by feel is that with LHR training, I know that I need to make adjustments to keep my HR lower. If I was using the "just go by feel" advice, maybe I wouldn't consider going slower up those hills. I think I'd just tell myself that what is hard will make me stronger. Not realizing that there is a smarter way to approach the run. What I like about the HRM is that it confirms for me what I'm feeling. I don't think that I need it always, since I can usually predict what my HR is given my effort. But, I wouldn't be able to do this without using the HRM at times for verification. NCRNR: For me, I know that for now I need to walk the hills if I want to keep my HR at the right level.
            ~ Mary ~

            "Workouts are like brushing my teeth; I don't think about them, I just do them. The decision has already been made." - Patti Sue Plumer
              Quite simply put...if your HR is that high at a 12 minute pace (the hot weather lately and not being acclimated to the heat can make a huge impact as well) then you definitely need to exercise patience. Running harder isn't going to help you at all. You already know that though....GOOD for you. I think your mind in the right place. This is a long journey....you have all sorts of time. Your pace will get better, and probably a lot better, over the coming months.
              BeeRunB


                Hi everyone. I'm a fairly new runner - still trying to figure out the best way for me to train. I read alot of the information on here for Low HR training, so this morning I thought I would try it out..I'm not sure if I'm just weird or if I'm still not running slow enough.. Some background.. 30yo male. 5'7" 149 lbs. I'd say I'm in fairly good shape overall. I have tested my max heart rate to be approximately 205 (6:40 mile at the end of a 5 mile run). and my resting heart rate (tested in the morning, in bed) is around 52 - 54bpm. So, to be under 70% of my max, I need to run at least under 145bpm, right? This morning, running at 12:00/mile pace, my heart rate was still above 170! Running at that speed I can breathe entirely though my nostrils - in and out - without any difficulty. When I have run at a 10:00 minute/mile pace my heart rate does not seem to be very much higher than the mid 170's. The slowest I could get my heart rate this morning, while still jogging/running.. was 166bpm at ~12:45/mile pace. Is my heart that out of shape? and do I still need to slow down my running?
                It's not your heart per say, but your aerobic system, your endurance, your slow twitch fibers. You are a sugar-burning machine at the moment. Your body abhors fat when processing oxygen. MAF training will take care of that, but if you choose to go for it, then you must be prepared to do what it takes, which might mean walk breaks., walking hills, and running 13-14 minute miles at the start. If you build your volume (amount of time or mileage) about 5% per week, then you'll see progress, and eventually you'll be down to 9-10:00 miles, but your HR will be below 150 bpm. You'll be an aerobic machine capable of finishing marathons without slowing down--no wall. All your race times will get faster. The opposite sex will be strangely attracted to your fat-burning scent. Building volume is key. I recommend you read the Boilerplate sticky and any of the Mark Allen articles I've posted, as well as Maffetone's book. Your MAF is 150 BPM. That will do. Don't worry about the 70%MHR. Your 205 is probably a little low. It's very hard to reach your MHR. I have a theory that when you do, you will disappear from earth and merge into a true universal love. --Jimmy
                  Hi, I am a neophyte (4 months in) and I am a true believer. As Jimmy pointed out, read the Mark Allen articles. If that guy had to drop from 5:20 to 8:20, then you will as well. Everyone is different, so it is difficult to say, but give it a solid 4 months and you will see results. I have been at it for that amount of time and I have seen major progress in my times, but, more importantly, I am injury free. I was always running dinged up before, but all those aches and pains are gone.


                  run-easy-race-hard

                    My first pace at MAF heart rate was 17 min/mile. On the treadmill. Flat.
                    BeeRunB


                      There ya go showing your "length" again.


                      run-easy-race-hard

                        There ya go showing your "length" again.
                        ah, gotta watch that!
                          There ya go showing your "length" again.
                          Rofl. Thanks for the morning laugh. Smile


                          My Hero

                            Perfectly normal heart for a "feel" runner. If you want to maximize your health and performance, stick with your MAF, or what ever is your chosen LHR training regime.
                            My intent is not too hijack this thread, but thought I would interject this thought on the "feel" runner... I'm sure most of you have read "Slow Burn" by Stu Mittleman? After reading his book, it is apparent that Maffetone had a huge influence on Stu's training as well as diet. If anybody has written about what it "feels" like to be in a certain LHR zone, Stu, I believe has nailed it. Never, have I read anything (so far) that is as complete and objective in explaining running by "feel."
                            BeeRunB


                              Here's an experiment: Wear your HR monitor, but cover your watch somehow so you can't see your HR. Then go out and run on feel. See what the results are. I think I'll try it down the road some time. --Jimmy
                                To me LHR training is a way to mold my body to something I find desirable. But to be able to mold it I need a tool to see that my body is in the right condition to change. If I would run by feel, that I used to do in my 20-teen, I would let my body to control me. This is the difference as I see it, and I am not going to look back to my feel running times. Past is past, and right now I feel good. Now I am the driver and my body is a passenger. I do hope it enjoys the drive Big grin
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