Race Results - Love Run Westlake Village 1 mile 10 year old son - 2 overall at 6:07. Beat every single adult but one. Lots of hills so I think that time is incredible. He said he felt incredible during entire race and raised his arms in excitement at the finish line. Very happy kid. 12 year old daughter - 4th overall at 6:37. Beat all but two adults. First female overall. She felt very good but the hills through her off a bit. She said she felt pretty darn good as well. Thrilled to death at her performance. 6 year old daughter - Ran for fun with mom. Excited to get a metal. 3 weeks of nearly all aerobic training for all 3. 10 weeks more to go until cross country season starts. They might do one more race for fun between now and then. Feedback from kids is basically that they can't wait to run tomorrow after school and believe even more than ever in the concept of getting faster at the same heart rate and that it improves race pace. Getting their "buy in" at first was more of the fact that I am their dad, but getting them to believe on their own of this process is immensely more important.
Race Results - Love Run Westlake Village 1 mile
10 year old son - 2 overall at 6:07. Beat every single adult but one. Lots of hills so I think that time is incredible. He said he felt incredible during entire race and raised his arms in excitement at the finish line. Very happy kid.
12 year old daughter - 4th overall at 6:37. Beat all but two adults. First female overall. She felt very good but the hills through her off a bit. She said she felt pretty darn good as well. Thrilled to death at her performance.
6 year old daughter - Ran for fun with mom. Excited to get a metal.
3 weeks of nearly all aerobic training for all 3. 10 weeks more to go until cross country season starts. They might do one more race for fun between now and then. Feedback from kids is basically that they can't wait to run tomorrow after school and believe even more than ever in the concept of getting faster at the same heart rate and that it improves race pace. Getting their "buy in" at first was more of the fact that I am their dad, but getting them to believe on their own of this process is immensely more important.
Holy cow. You can not argue with those results. That's pretty incredible. And it's only going to get better!
Hilltopper
Yeah no kidding. What is crazy is the most parents that take running seriously actually encourage their kids to race all through the summer. They don't do ANY aerobic running at all. All that does is empty their aerobic running bank by the time cross country season starts. It should be a fun learning story culminating with the USATF 2017 Cross Country Junior Olympics in Tallahassee FL on December 9th.
Almost everyone I know thinks I'm crazy for running like I do. They all say things like, "It's too hard!" or "I can barely make it to the end of the block now, hah hah hah!" or "It's bad on your knees!". If I had a nickel for every time I've heard one of those things, I'd be a rich millionaire.
There is a reason that so many of my friends, acquaintances and colleagues talk like that. I can't be for sure because we all have different experiences but if I had to guess, I would say it's mostly because of no easy running and burnout. Running anaerobically is fun in spurts but to do it all of the time would be stressful. It's difficult for most people to develop a lifelong love or passion for something that is constantly high stress.
Ok so to fess up, we never ended up using the heart rate monitors for the kids. I don't need to get into the reasons why, but it wasn't popular so we didn't. Well after my "hot run" this morning I decided to strap the HRM on my 12 year old. This is a kid that run close to a 6 min mile. 10 year old is well below a 6 min mile. Well today they ran for 30 mins and ran the first mile in 11:40, mile two in 12:40, and mile three in 14/mi! Yikes! Dr M recommends a 155-165 MAF for kids. How is this possible? Can their aerobic engines be that weak despite being able to run such fast times? Am I doing the right thing by having them slow down? I am questioning things a bit and so are the kids.
Almost everyone I know thinks I'm crazy for running like I do. They all say things like, "It's too hard!" or "I can barely make it to the end of the block now, hah hah hah!" or "It's bad on your knees!". If I had a nickel for every time I've heard one of those things, I'd be a rich millionaire. There is a reason that so many of my friends, acquaintances and colleagues talk like that. I can't be for sure because we all have different experiences but if I had to guess, I would say it's mostly because of no easy running and burnout. Running anaerobically is fun in spurts but to do it all of the time would be stressful. It's difficult for most people to develop a lifelong love or passion for something that is constantly high stress.
Doesn't surprise me at all. My first experience with MAF was in December. At the time I could also run below a 6 minute mile (roughly 5:35 flat out). As soon as I tried MAF, my paces were in that same range of speed that your kids are seeing. It only took a few months to get down under a 9 minute mile at MAF. And I'm no special case.
Have you tried measuring their HR in race conditions? It's probably about the same percent of max as it would be for you are me in a race (assuming the same relative time on feet).
Let's say for the sake of argument that a 5K race is 96% MaxHR. Let's say that MAF is 75% MaxHR. Let's say your kids are now running 12:00 pace at 75% MaxHR. Assume that 2 months later their pace improves to 9:00 at 75% MaxHR (MAF). It's almost impossible to suggest that their pace at 96% MaxHR will not improve. Therefore their 5K race times will improve. I'd definitely stay the course without hesitation.
Been awhile so I thought I'd check in. Kids didn't stick with Maf Method. It is really hard to do with kids that young. Daughter is off to high school and is already training with the Cross Country team over the summer. 12 year old gifted son, Jack, is #1 in the state in the 1600m and 6th in the nation with a 5:22 so I figured I'd let him keep doing what feels right. I just started MAF again, this time on my Peloton Tread and although feeling quite slow, I want to stick with it. Last time I got so frustrated with summer heat and hills that I didn't truly manage to train at or below MAF. I'll post another thread with my weekly progress.
WOW!!!!!!!! You must be extremely proud! I love stories like this. Please keep us posted over time. Is Jack doing any running over the summer and does he plan on running cross country in the fall? He's going to dominate the middle school cross country landscape if he feels like it.
https://www.facebook.com/1404638260/videos/pcb.10220254070047640/10220254049007114/?type=3&theater
Not sure if you can see this. So exciting. This was the 1500m, but huge upset at the end for the win. This kid ate his lunch last time they raced in the Junior Olympics. Yes Jack is already training over the summer so he can dominate cross country and make a run at All American Status at the JO's.
We can't. If the video was posted by yourself on Facebook, you will need to make the video public. (And it must be posted either on your own Facebook page or in a public group.)
Sorry about that guys. In any case, he is friggin' fast and that is probably with a very mediocre aerobic base.
It's estimated that the mile is about an 80% aerobic event and 20% anaerobic. So he has a very high natural lactate threshold. If you were to lactate test him, you'd probably be shocked how low his blood lactate levels are even at a 6:00 pace. His aerobic base is actually outstanding relative to the rest of the world but for him, it's probably very poor. That is very good news for him, meaning he can still improve substantially on what is already at an elite level.
Great feedback. I suspected something similar to that. I'd love more feedback on his training schedule. He is doing the following:
Tue: 4 miles easy trails
Wed: Threshold run 1 mile, 30 seconds rest x 3 or 4 depending on how he feels.
Thu: 4 miles easy trails
Sat or Sun: Long run easier pace.
He has remainder of June, all of July, then he will switch to training with his youth cross country team. He is in 6th grade, but he is training with the 8th graders, two of which are insanely fast as well. So Cal is a hotbed of running talent.
Great feedback. I suspected something similar to that. I'd love more feedback on his training schedule. He is doing the following: Tue: 4 miles easy trails Wed: Threshold run 1 mile, 30 seconds rest x 3 or 4 depending on how he feels. Thu: 4 miles easy trails Sat or Sun: Long run easier pace. He has remainder of June, all of July, then he will switch to training with his youth cross country team. He is in 6th grade, but he is training with the 8th graders, two of which are insanely fast as well. So Cal is a hotbed of running talent.
Wow, I wish my 12 year old did that. Do you bribe him with money? $1 per mile?
That's probably really awesome training for a kid of his age. How long is his long run, in the 6-8 range?
Wow, I wish my 12 year old did that. Do you bribe him with money? $1 per mile? That's probably really awesome training for a kid of his age. How long is his long run, in the 6-8 range?
No bribes. He likes to win. He grumbles when we go, but he is always glad he did it after. Long might peak at 6, but starting at 4-5.
Just went to first Cross Country meeting at my daughter's high school. The coach is intense but amazing. His goal is to build the premier cross country program in the nation. His varsity team finished 6th in the nation at the NXN Nike Cross Country Championships and he has the goal of taking the national title this year. For the girls team they want to finish top 3 at the CA state championships.