Low HR Training

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Is doing Lydiards wind sprints ie using creatine phosphate as a fuel source allowed? (Read 532 times)

Shondek


    After my very pleasurable and freezing 3hour maf-10 to maf-5.(.Maf is124) run yesterday morning.I decided to make todays 1hr-30 run a bit more interesting.

    I tend to split my timed runs into 3 so today its 30mins warm up 30min in range 30mins cool down.

    After warm up I bring pulse down to 100 then hammer it(sprint) for 9-10 secs, not flat out but controlled ..it has to be as I dont want my pulse to reach 125.With trial and error I managed it though had to bring my starting pulse down to mid 90's.

    According to lydiard there must be long recoveries; 5mins plus and as long as sprints are less than10 sec(Alactic) the 5 minute recovery should be enough to replace spent fuel,avoiding lactic acid so still keeping it aerobic and can be done weekly throughout base training.

    I got home doing after doing 6 speed reps feeling fresh  unfazed and dry running gear.This still felt like fat burning to me.

    Hopefully this will help leg speed..

    I've done 250 miles at low heart rate although only a few days at proper range and today for the first time I felt a big improvement,well small..

      I agree sprints can help a lot. (though when I did them, I had long full rests between them.)

        After my very pleasurable and freezing 3hour maf-10 to maf-5.(.Maf is124) run yesterday morning.I decided to make todays 1hr-30 run a bit more interesting.

        I tend to split my timed runs into 3 so today its 30mins warm up 30min in range 30mins cool down.

        After warm up I bring pulse down to 100 then hammer it(sprint) for 9-10 secs, not flat out but controlled ..it has to be as I dont want my pulse to reach 125.With trial and error I managed it though had to bring my starting pulse down to mid 90's.

        According to lydiard there must be long recoveries; 5mins plus and as long as sprints are less than10 sec(Alactic) the 5 minute recovery should be enough to replace spent fuel,avoiding lactic acid so still keeping it aerobic and can be done weekly throughout base training.

        I got home doing after doing 6 speed reps feeling fresh  unfazed and dry running gear.This still felt like fat burning to me.

        Hopefully this will help leg speed..

        I've done 250 miles at low heart rate although only a few days at proper range and today for the first time I felt a big improvement,well small..

         

        Hi Shondek,

         

        I think I've tried (and others along the way here as well), these brief sprints that avoid going over MAF. Except for the fun of variety and play, I never saw that they mattered in terms of progress during the base period. In other words, I didn't see quicker  improvement in aerobic speed. If you run at your MAF, you do get some fast twitch development, most likely the Type 2a Fibers, which are like an intermediate fiber that uses both aerobic and anaerobic metabolism. The more you use them aerobically, the more aerobic they become. I find that if I am staunch at staying at MAF for a 12 to 16 week base period, then start an anaerobic phase with longer Fartlek sprints, or just begin to race, the aerobic improvement will continue, and sometimes I've seen a nice improvement that seemed to be at a faster rate than during the base period. No harm in doing these sprints as long as your aerobic speed keeps improving and you are having fun. Just wanted to share my experience.

         

        --Jimmy

         

        P.S. What's the question about creatine? All I know is that it is an amino acid found in meat.

        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

         

        Shondek


          Hi Shondek,

           

          I think I've tried (and others along the way here as well), these brief sprints that avoid going over MAF. Except for the fun of variety and play, I never saw that they mattered in terms of progress during the base period. In other words, I didn't see quicker  improvement in aerobic speed. If you run at your MAF, you do get some fast twitch development, most likely the Type 2a Fibers, which are like an intermediate fiber that uses both aerobic and anaerobic metabolism. The more you use them aerobically, the more aerobic they become. I find that if I am staunch at staying at MAF for a 12 to 16 week base period, then start an anaerobic phase with longer Fartlek sprints, or just begin to race, the aerobic improvement will continue, and sometimes I've seen a nice improvement that seemed to be at a faster rate than during the base period. No harm in doing these sprints as long as your aerobic speed keeps improving and you are having fun. Just wanted to share my experience.

           

          --Jimmy

           

          P.S. What's the question about creatine? All I know is that it is an amino acid found in meat.

           Thanks for that jimmy ..Very interesting .Part of me wants to stay in -Maf until my normal pace returns and the other part feels like lets do it for the winter then Feb we get some hill then anaerobic(races).Has anyone found that with the later when one goes back to Maf training after race season the maf pace has improved?

          I think creatine phosphate is the 3rd energy source which doesn't produce lactic acid if the duration is less than 10 secs .I was just wondering if you have to use fat alone and nothing else or anythng But sugar?.

          Hey just occurred to me going by the theory above.

          If it is true no lactate is produced with  sprints up to 10 sec and you did the legendary jimmyB warm up to maf-20 and then sprinted for 10 secs would the heart rate peak not be close to maf!!??

             Thanks for that jimmy ..Very interesting .Part of me wants to stay in -Maf until my normal pace returns and the other part feels like lets do it for the winter then Feb we get some hill then anaerobic(races).Has anyone found that with the later when one goes back to Maf training after race season the maf pace has improved?

            I think creatine phosphate is the 3rd energy source which doesn't produce lactic acid if the duration is less than 10 secs .I was just wondering if you have to use fat alone and nothing else or anythng But sugar?.

            Hey just occurred to me going by the theory above.

            If it is true no lactate is produced with  sprints up to 10 sec and you did the legendary jimmyB warm up to maf-20 and then sprinted for 10 secs would the heart rate peak not be close to maf!!??

             

             

            if I do a 10 sec sprint it will take my HR well past the 180-age formula. :P

             

            the last time I tried it'd go to 160-162 or so.

             

            (unless it's done from full rest, no running between, no matter how slow it is.)

            Shondek


              if I do a 10 sec sprint it will take my HR well past the 180-age formula. :P

               

              the last time I tried it'd go to 160-162 or so.

               

              (unless it's done from full rest, no running between, no matter how slow it is.)

               Lydiard always stipulated that the sprints are done in a relaxed controlled manner with the wind behind you and preferably slightly downhill .I dont like the idea of running fast 

              He also said in the aerobic phase never never never do anaerobic,I trust his judgement.

              I did another alactic set this morning after 1 hour sub maf .

              I let my pulse go down to mid 90s then sprinted counting 1 (2 strides) 2 (2strides) 3etc up to 5 ,my pulse went up to 119-122,didn't start raising until after I stopped,but thats probably the garmins delay.Don't think  it was up to 10 sec I just slowed down if I wanted  to count to10, but it was hardly a sprint but maybe in time my sprints will get longer as time goes on.Could be all pointless .

              Big Phil mentions them in his big book and says they dont help endurance,which I think is pretty obvious.

              Uncle Arthur always stipulated it was for leg speed,neural  and economy.

              As long as they don't affect me aerobically I think I'll stick with them I always feel good after them and as Seb Coe says never be too far away from speed,and after health this is what its all about.

              I'm going to keep my at maf runs to the treadmill until things improve or the make Glasgow flat.

                 Lydiard always stipulated that the sprints are done in a relaxed controlled manner with the wind behind you and preferably slightly downhill .I dont like the idea of running fast 

                He also said in the aerobic phase never never never do anaerobic,I trust his judgement.

                I did another alactic set this morning after 1 hour sub maf .

                I let my pulse go down to mid 90s then sprinted counting 1 (2 strides) 2 (2strides) 3etc up to 5 ,my pulse went up to 119-122,didn't start raising until after I stopped,but thats probably the garmins delay.Don't think  it was up to 10 sec I just slowed down if I wanted  to count to10, but it was hardly a sprint but maybe in time my sprints will get longer as time goes on.Could be all pointless .

                Big Phil mentions them in his big book and says they dont help endurance,which I think is pretty obvious.

                Uncle Arthur always stipulated it was for leg speed,neural  and economy.

                As long as they don't affect me aerobically I think I'll stick with them I always feel good after them and as Seb Coe says never be too far away from speed,and after health this is what its all about.

                I'm going to keep my at maf runs to the treadmill until things improve or the make Glasgow flat.

                 

                 

                I guess if I started from the 90's then it'd go to 140 or so in 10 sec. when I did all-out 100m that was from 110 to 190+ in 10-odd secs. my heart just responds fast, is all.

                 

                btw when I did these sprints, relaxed, controlled, and all that, they helped a lot with my running form! made running easier for the legs. it was almost like magic! Smile

                Shondek


                  I guess if I started from the 90's then it'd go to 140 or so in 10 sec. when I did all-out 100m that was from 110 to 190+ in 10-odd secs. my heart just responds fast, is all.

                   

                  btw when I did these sprints, relaxed, controlled, and all that, they helped a lot with my running form! made running easier for the legs. it was almost like magic! Smile

                   I hear you cmon2 but I suppose the beauty of knowing your maf will determine how fAst to sprint.which has kind of been blind for me over the years..I agree you about the sprints they give you that my 'my shoes feel really light' feeling