Low HR Training

1

Factoring in heat (Read 37 times)

Barrtim


    Some advice please

    i live in Singapore where the daytime temperature is 30-35C pretty much 365 days of the year...and very humid. I am struggling to work how to factor in these conditions to my training.

    For comparison, I did two identical workouts. 5k on a TM, same gradient, same time of day at the same constant pace.

    Local temp, after warmup, HR starting approx 110bpm

    1k 121bpm avg

    2k 130bpm avg

    3k 137bpm avg

    4k 147bpm avg

    5k 151bpm avg

    max 153 which is pretty much my LT HR

    wait 48 hours and repeat..but with the aircon on full blast and the temperature around 16-18C

    1k 112bpm avg

    2k 116bpm avg

    3k 118bpm avg

    4k 118bpm avg

    5k 119bpm avg

    Same workout for the legs but the physiological effect must be different..especially for someone trying to work within the constraints of long slow runs to build the base. I can't run slowly enough in the heat to not exceed the HR limits. Once you get over the limit it is very hard to bring the HR down without walking.

    Any suggestions?


    Slow and Steady

      Hi Barrtim, I think I can chime in here, seeing as I live right next door (in Malaysia) and have the same issues.

       

      I think many (most? all?) of the people in this group would say that when you're assessing yourself using your HR, you should stick to the same HR rather than the same pace. This is because the basic concept of low heartrate training (LHRT) is to help your body maximize its fat-burning potential by staying in the aerobic fat-burning zone.

       

      I use Maffetone's 180-age formula to determine my HR zone and then do my workouts within that zone. In the beginning, YES! it's hard to run slow enough. I started out at a 14:30 mile. After an hour or so, I had to start working in walk breaks to keep my HR from climbing too much. But if you stick to it, and get in enough volume (hours per week), you will see those times go down. I'm now consistently at or below a 13-minute pace and only have to walk after about 3 hours.

       

      P.S. I can't really address the temperature issue since I ONLY run outside. But it makes sense that the more the blood has to help your body cool itself in the heat, the harder your heart will have to pump. That's to be expected. So you should do your HR assessments in the same environment each time for better comparison. (Or you could do a monthly "outside test" and a monthly "inside test" - that's probably what I'd do!)

       

      Some advice please

      i live in Singapore where the daytime temperature is 30-35C pretty much 365 days of the year...and very humid. I am struggling to work how to factor in these conditions to my training.

      For comparison, I did two identical workouts. 5k on a TM, same gradient, same time of day at the same constant pace.

      Local temp, after warmup, HR starting approx 110bpm

      1k 121bpm avg

      2k 130bpm avg

      3k 137bpm avg

      4k 147bpm avg

      5k 151bpm avg

      max 153 which is pretty much my LT HR

      wait 48 hours and repeat..but with the aircon on full blast and the temperature around 16-18C

      1k 112bpm avg

      2k 116bpm avg

      3k 118bpm avg

      4k 118bpm avg

      5k 119bpm avg

      Same workout for the legs but the physiological effect must be different..especially for someone trying to work within the constraints of long slow runs to build the base. I can't run slowly enough in the heat to not exceed the HR limits. Once you get over the limit it is very hard to bring the HR down without walking.

      Any suggestions?

      Eric S.

      Trail Mix ||| dailymile ||| RA log

      Goals: 50km, 50-miler, 100km, 100-miler

      Barrtim


        Thks Eric, that makes a lot of sense. The run/ walk combination should let me play with the pace a bit but keep in the HR zone

        Docket_Rocket


          HR will adjust your pace for weather automatically.  Run by HR and you won't need to worry.

          Damaris

           

          As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

          Fundraising Page

          BeeRunB


            HR will adjust your pace for weather automatically.  Run by HR and you won't need to worry.

            Amen. Smile

             

            There are winter times and summer times. You might run a marathon in 3:30 in 45º, but if the same race with the same fitness were run in 90º,  the best you might do is 4:00.  They would be basically equal efforts. If you forced a 3:30 pace in 90º, you'd might be running at a summer half marathon pace (just as an example). If you start any marathon at a half marathon pace, you'll blow up early. That race in 90º might end up being a DNF or 4:30.  Same goes for training. If you're doing intervals at your winter 5k pace in 90º,  then those intervals are being done at a pace faster than 5k pace. I think you get the idea.

             

            HRM takes care of the adjustments for you, as Damaris already said.

             

            Docket_Rocket


              What Jimmy said is true.  A lot of people tell me not to adjust for heat but that's the first thing my coach asks me to do.  A 11mm in 90F is not the same as 11mm in 60F and training at the same pace 30F warmer is actually training at a much faster pace which kinds of defeats the purpose.

               

              I can easily run 10:30mm in December through February when it's 77F.  Now, I barely break 11mm since it is 10-20F warmer.

              Damaris

               

              As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

              Fundraising Page

              Buzzie


              Bacon Party!

                What Jimmy said is true.  A lot of people tell me not to adjust for heat but that's the first thing my coach asks me to do.  A 11mm in 90F is not the same as 11mm in 60F and training at the same pace 30F warmer is actually training at a much faster pace which kinds of defeats the purpose.

                 

                I can easily run 10:30mm in December through February when it's 77F.  Now, I barely break 11mm since it is 10-20F warmer.

                 

                Why does your coach ask you to make such an adjustment?

                Liz

                pace sera, sera

                BeeRunB


                   

                  Why does your coach ask you to make such an adjustment?

                   

                  Read my post above. In simple terms, if you push a pace that you ran when it was cooler (e.g. 11:00 pace) at MAF, then your HR will be way above MAF, until you get fitter and acclimate (you will have to do both, acclimatizing won't get you all the way back to the pace you ran in winter). If you push that 11:00 pace, your HR will be anaerobic in terms of this method. This method is about keeping stress in check. If you read Dr. Maffetone's books, he talks about how some people can start to regress in the summer when they don't adjust. They move toward plateaus, over-reaching and even OT, thinking that the volume and pace can be the same as when it was 20º cooler (in all types of workouts).  Of course , the HRM will make the proper adjustments for you.

                   

                  Damaris' coach obviously understands this.

                  Docket_Rocket


                    What Jimmy says.  Even if I train by pace I have charts on adjusting the pace depending on weather.  So, I would have paces for 60F-100F.  Obviously I only look at 80-100F because Miami never gets below that.  I have no problem running the faster pace come race day in cooler weather.

                     

                    running in 90F at 11mm is not 11mm at 60F.  it is sometimes close to 10mm-10:15mm (equivalent effort).  That can be the dead of a marathon when you are supposed to get endurance which you are not getting because you are running the easy runs too fast.

                    Damaris

                     

                    As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                    Fundraising Page

                    Buzzie


                    Bacon Party!

                      Perhaps I misread Damaris' post and others preceding:

                      "HR will adjust your pace for weather automatically.  Run by HR and you won't need to worry.HR will adjust your pace for weather automatically. Run by HR and you won't need to worry"

                       

                      "HRM takes care of the adjustments for you, as Damaris already said."

                       

                      "A lot of people tell me not to adjust for heat but that's the first thing my coach asks me to do."

                       

                      If the adjustment is automatic and the HRM takes care of it for you, then there is no need to adjust ... and yet her coach is asking her to adjust.

                      Didn't make sense to me. But, I'm easily confused.

                      BTW - I'm more than clear on the concept.

                      Liz

                      pace sera, sera

                      BeeRunB


                        Perhaps I misread Damaris' post and others preceding:

                        "HR will adjust your pace for weather automatically.  Run by HR and you won't need to worry.HR will adjust your pace for weather automatically. Run by HR and you won't need to worry"

                         

                        "HRM takes care of the adjustments for you, as Damaris already said."

                         

                        "A lot of people tell me not to adjust for heat but that's the first thing my coach asks me to do."

                         

                        If the adjustment is automatic and the HRM takes care of it for you, then there is no need to adjust ... and yet her coach is asking her to adjust.

                        Didn't make sense to me. But, I'm easily confused.

                        BTW - I'm more than clear on the concept.

                         

                        I get you know! You're right, it doesn't make sense, unless Damaris is running by pace with her coach.

                         

                        Yo, Damaris! Please clarify.

                          @Barrtim

                           

                          my solution:

                           

                          when not strictly doing low HR training: I would do the quality workouts on the TM with aircon. the recovery runs can be outside. I don't like TM running by default, seems boring to me and I think it's the same for most people, but in a quality workout I'm - and I assume most people too - occupied enough to not be bothered by boredom no matter where I run Smile with recovery runs I would die from boredom on a TM* so those would be outside and there it doesn't really matter if you run very slow anyway. just need to keep the HR low.

                           

                          *: I know jimmyb somehow manages to survive the boredom of running on the TM even at 0 bpm  

                           

                          if you're only doing base building right now: then I guess it's tougher mentally to do some workouts on the TM but I would still do at least 3-4 workouts every week on the TM including the MAF tests. the rest can be outside and again it's okay to go really slow for those.

                           

                          I don't see the run-walk suggestion as a real solution for the base build period, it's too little training stimulus IMO, unless you're a complete beginner. in that case maybe it's a good idea. my opinion...

                          Docket_Rocket


                             

                            I get you know! You're right, it doesn't make sense, unless Damaris is running by pace with her coach.

                             

                            Yo, Damaris! Please clarify.

                             

                            I have both instructions.  Either adjust for heat and correct pace (he actually gave me a chart of the adjustments per each weather reading) or run by HR and the adjustment will be made on your own.  He looks at both and both better match or I'll be in trouble.


                            Sorry for the confusion.

                            Damaris

                             

                            As part of the 2024 London Marathon, I am fundraising for VICTA, a charity that helps blind and visually impaired children. My mentor while in law school, Jim K (a blind attorney), has been a huge inspiration and an example of courage and perseverance. Please consider donating.

                            Fundraising Page