Low HR Training

1

feedback appreciated (Read 25 times)

    Brief running history:

    I’ve been trail running since 2012 and have gotten to the point where I feel comfortable racing 50k’s (given appropriate training). I’ve finished one 50 miler (took it easy and conservative and finished feeling awesome) and one 100 (finished after a 30 mile walk on what I latter discover was a femoral neck stress fracture - I’ve been cleared to run again for a year now). That sucked.

     

    I’m comfortable in the 45-50 miles per week range right now. All my non-treadmill runs are hilly trails or gravel roads - by hilly I mean 5-8% average grade. I also do some weightlifting - deadlifts, front squats, single leg deadlifts, and pistols and chin-ups.

     

    Primary goal:

    Set myself up so I can run lots in the heat and humidity this summer. Note: I don’t acclimate well to heat. I tend to end up on the edge of heat exhaustion all too regularly, and though I have gotten pretty good at riding that line it’s not a pleasant experience.  To accomplish this I’ve got a 2 pronged approach:

    lose weight - I’m carrying at least 10 pounds of completely unneeded gut

    develop massive aerobic engine so the heat doesn’t stress me out as much

     

    Secondary goals: reduce calorie needs (and therefore hopefully digestive distress) during long runs (I can do 3 hours now on no calories if I keep the effort really easy), comfortably increase mileage, improve my “I can do this all day” pace.

     

    I’ve got a 50k coming up in Feb 22nd (~8 weeks out) that I intend to race, so I’m not prepared to go full on MAF until after that is done; I need practice at race effort over technical terrain.

     

    But after that I’ve got a 50 mile night trail race in March, and a 12 hour in May. The 50 miler will be a practice run for a 100 in November, so I’m planning on 100 mile effort level. And my goal for the 12 hour is to keep moving the entire time… minimize time spend at aid stations etc. So I figure I’ve got a 3 months March-May where I can keep to MAF before it gets ridiculously hot and humid (I live in Alabama).

     

    To sum it all up, I need to be able to run a ton this summer to be ready for my 100 miler in November. From what I have read and understood about heat tolerance, losing weight and having a great aerobic base are the two most important aspects that I have control over. I enjoy running slowly, don’t mind walking up hills, and need to spend as much time as possible doing both of those so I think maffing may be an effective strategy for me.

     

    ~138bpm is about where my HR settles on cool days when I am taking it easy and 180-39=141. (I don’t really fit into any of the categories for adding or subtracting anything, no medication, never get sick, but not consistent for 2 years yet). So I think I’ll keep 141 for now, though I suspect I will usually average in the 135-138 range.

     

    Feasible? Optimal? Any chance this will work out the way I am hoping? Feedback appreciated.

    Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

    BeeRunB


      Hi Lynde and welcome to the forum. Congrats on your fine accomplishments in ultras. Ron (Runnerclay) might be a better person to speak to your training, as he has some ultras under his belt. One thing I can say is that, no matter your training approach, if your aerobic speed is progressing through training and your body feels good, then fine—stay the course. If it isn't progressing and/or you're exhausted and sore all the time, or you're constantly getting sick, then a cutback is in order. Essentially, your body is always telling you when it's too much. The importance of monitoring your speed at MAF is that it sometimes clues you in that it's too much before the injury or sickness comes.

       

      The healthier you are going into your big races, the better off you'll be. That's the heart of the method. Good luck! 

        Jimmy, thanks for the welcome 

         

        The ability to use my aerobic speed as a gauge on how my body is handling the workload is one of the things that really draws me to this method.

        Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

        runnerclay


        Consistently Slow

          Lynda--are you taking electrolytes/ salt tables? Are you running GUTS Fat Ass this year?

          Run until the trail runs out.

           SCHEDULE 2016--

           The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

          unsolicited chatter

          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

            It's actually Lynde - pronounced like lindy... old family name 

             

            I use s-caps all summer, and sometimes remember them on longer winter runs. I've experimented a little with Tailwind but find I prefer to keep my electrolytes, calories and water independent of each other.

             

            I didn't realize the Guts fatass was the 10th this year. I had thought it would be this weekend. I probably shouldn't run it since I'm doing a 28ish mile group long run tomorrow up on Cheaha but.... I really enjoyed it last time I ran it. I'll see how I'm feeling Sunday. Thanks for putting the idea in my head lol.

             

            Are you?

            Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

            runnerclay


            Consistently Slow

              Sorry about the misspelling.GUTS FatAss  has a wait list. Yeti Heartbreak marathon is Feb 14. $70.15% discount ends today. Ultra signup.

              It's actually Lynde - pronounced like lindy... old family name 

               

              I use s-caps all summer, and sometimes remember them on longer winter runs. I've experimented a little with Tailwind but find I prefer to keep my electrolytes, calories and water independent of each other.

               

              I didn't realize the Guts fatass was the 10th this year. I had thought it would be this weekend. I probably shouldn't run it since I'm doing a 28ish mile group long run tomorrow up on Cheaha but.... I really enjoyed it last time I ran it. I'll see how I'm feeling Sunday. Thanks for putting the idea in my head lol.

               

              Are you?

              Run until the trail runs out.

               SCHEDULE 2016--

               The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

              unsolicited chatter

              http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                Sorry about the misspelling.GUTS FatAss  has a wait list. Yeti Heartbreak marathon is Feb 14. $70.15% discount ends today. Ultra signup.

                 

                That's too bad about the GUTS run. I would probably have done it, if I'd thought about it earlier. I'm running Mt. Cheaha 50k, Feb 27th with the Scout Strong 20k, Feb 9th, as my last hard run before Cheaha.

                Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

                  Some thoughts on my experience so far:

                  -Treadmills make maintaining an even HR much easier, but trails and hills are more fun.

                   

                  -I'm MUCH faster on hilly gravel roads (10 miles, 13:00, avg HR 135) than steep wet technical trails covered in leaves (13 miles, 19:00, avg HR 134). Not surprised I'm slower, just didn't expect to be that much slower. When the hills get really steep and rocky I have to go REALLY REALLY slowly to stay under MAF HR.

                   

                  -I'm not any faster on a flat treadmill (mile 3 was 13:14) than I am on hilly gravel roads. Lots of possible reasons for this, I just think it's interesting.

                   

                  -I can run under MAF for over 4 hours without needing anything to eat and on no breakfast. The no food was an accident. I thought my 13 mile run today would take under 3 hours... oops. Someday I'm going to need to test this and see how long I can go.

                   

                  -I finish long runs with tired muscles but not feeling wiped out. And I actually want to do things other than just lie on the couch for the rest of the day. I don't feel ill. I'm not ravenously hungry. My digestive system functions properly. Awesome.

                   

                   

                  I really want to race Mt Cheaha 50k well. I did a similar difficulty level 25k in 3:11 (on 11/21) after going out too fast and then trying to stay with the eventual 2nd place woman for 11 miles. I was on pace for about a 2:45 finish and then my calves started trying to cramp and I had nothing left going uphill (just walking slowly uphill left me feeling nauseous and lightheaded), though I still felt ok going down and on the flats. Nutrition/ hydration and salt all seemed good. With better pacing I think I could have finished sub 3. This was my 'is sub 6 possible at Cheaha?' race. I will finish Cheaha in under 6 hours some day, but I'm doubtful it will happen this year. And I'll be very happy with a well executed, even (or close to) split race, regardless of time.

                   

                  Given the above, I'm not sure which of the following would be better in the short term before Cheaha (2/28):

                  Option A: maintain mileage and do some higher intensity work - one day of hill repeats, one day of long tempo.

                  Option B: increase mileage, no higher intensity work

                  Option C: increase mileage some, one day more intense work

                   

                  I'm kind of leaning towards option B, just run more, since I can't hold the speed I have over enough distance, I'm having fun running slowly, and more mileage has worked for me in the past. But I'm getting into unknown territory mileage-wise; I've never sustained over 50 miles per week.

                   

                  Thoughts? Advice? Anyone actually manage to read this far down? 

                  Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

                  runnerclay


                  Consistently Slow

                    Option A.

                    A 20 miler 3 weeks out from the race. On the race course.

                    Run until the trail runs out.

                     SCHEDULE 2016--

                     The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                    unsolicited chatter

                    http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                      Option A.

                      A 20 miler 3 weeks out from the race. On the race course.

                       

                      Thanks. I'm not sure why I thought I should change up my original plan. Did some hills yesterday, 14x 20s hill sprint (not quite all out and with 2 min rest between sets of 5 - miscounted last set, but I was feeling done anyways), 1x 3.5min hill (moderately hard) and fartlecked the other hills on the course - total 8.5 miles.

                       

                      Do you have an opinion on length of a "tempo" run for a 50k? I'm thinking 2 mile warm-up, and 6-10 miles running comfortably hard, but such that I could do it again if it was a race.

                       

                      I'll be racing a 20k 3 weeks out. Not on the course, unfortunately. From here on all but one of my long runs are planned for the course.

                      Pinhoti 100: Finished :D