... I took the rate of slowing at MAF of 8:00-10:00 MAF pace on Maffetone's chart and figured up to 13:00. This could be way off, as if you notice on his chart there is a jump between 7-8:00 that increases twice the rate of slowing on most of the chart...
Max McMaffelow Esq.
It would be interesting to see results from someone with, e.g., a MAF pace of 13:00 min/mile. McMillan says that for those whose marathons are over 4 hours, the difference between training pace and marathon pace will be less than for those whose marathons are under 4 hours. I would suspect that as someone's marathon time goes up this difference narrows more and more. McMillan's pace calculator works pretty well for me, plugging in HM or Marathon time to predict the other. HM pace is about 1:00 min/mile faster than training (MAF) pace. Marathon pace is about 30 sec/mile faster than training pace. Unfortunately for me, that's way slower than the extrapolated chart would predict.
Another reason this topic interested me is that when I first started MAF training last January, my best 5k time was 23:30. When I checked the chart, it said that my MAF pace should be about 10 min. Well, it was more like 12 minutes. So, there was no correlation. But, then I recently read that Dr. Maffetone used the "first mile" in the MAF test as his data point. In his book, the Maffetone Method, on page 73, is the following quote: "The chart below compares first-mile MAF test times with 5K average mile times..." and he is referring to this chart..... ......Does anybody know why this seems to be the only place he ever refers to this data point as the "first-mile MAF test times", but he never refers to it that way anywhere else?
Some people will get faster in mile two or three, which is not normal. Maffetone says that's a warm up problem but I think it's a metabolic issue.
LG, What do you consider a proper warm-up for an MAF test?
It would be interesting to see results from someone with, e.g., a MAF pace of 13:00 min/mile. McMillan says that for those whose marathons are over 4 hours, the difference between training pace and marathon pace will be less than for those whose marathons are under 4 hours. I would suspect that as someone's marathon time goes up this difference narrows more and more. McMillan's pace calculator works pretty well for me, plugging in HM or Marathon time to predict the other. HM pace is about 1:30 min/mile faster than training (MAF) pace. Marathon pace is about 30 sec/mile faster than training pace. Unfortunately for me, that's way slower than the extrapolated chart would predict.
Recalculating...
The chart is just one possible indicator. One that might not come into play until you have a few marathons under your belt, along with correlating MAF test data. The test you did at MAF-2 puts you in the 4:00 range on the chart, but might not mean you can yet do 4 hours. The marathon times were taken from the MCMillan calculator after popping in Maffetone's 5k times. One thing to remember is that basing a possible marathon time on a 5k pace using the calculator gives you the best possible time under optimal conditions and needing to be an aerobic machine. Have you any other information? A race of any distance? Have you done a marathon before? If so, did you keep track of all your training times and HR's? For indicators, I use MAF tests, MRP runs, races (popped into McMillan) and comparisons with past training times under similar conditions. I found the Maffetone MAF chart to be fairly close (for cool weather). --Jimmy
labhiker
Thank you for both of your great posts, Run. I had never read that interview with Phil, and thoroughly enjoyed it. He's hanging with the Chili Peppers...interesting. --Jimmy
Jimmy, Is that chart from Maffetone's book based on true MAF (assuming blood tests?) or just the MAF +5 formula like you outlined for your times in your original post?
Jimmy - here is a little more information from a few races and long runs. 26.2M (10/07) 10:25 ave. pace 161ave/ 184max (a few pit stops along route….) 13.1 M (10/06) 9:14 ave pace 169 ave/ 190max 10M (this summer - 85F+ & humid) 9:43 ave pace (slow) 174ave/ 198max (can I correct this time based on a previous post prior to plugging into McMillan?) - if 12% for 85F+ 8:40 pace +/- - if 7% 9:05 pace +/- Plugging in previous race times into McMillan (both actual and corrected for heat & humidity) I am coming up with an approximate 9:15 to 9:45 MP (from a 10M) and a 9:45 MP (from a 1/2 in 07). I had about four 20 milers at sub-MAF pace. Two were at an averaged about 11:05 (MAF-2 ave with a 2 - 3 mile pick up at the end >> MAF). The other two were at an average 11:15 pace (MAF-12 ave). Two 19 milers averaged about an 11:10 pace @ MAF-14. (MAF runs corrected for summer heat and humidity). Using these results and the expanded MAF chart (with average MAF pace not 1st mile pace) it suggests a possible 9:15 – 9:32 MP. Based on all this does it seem practical to go after a 9:15 to 9:45 pace? Is it OK to look at previous MAF runs and correct actual paces for the hot dog days of summer?