Low HR Training

123

Another eager LHR candidate (Read 106 times)

BeeRunB


    Entering your 41:54, the Pace Wiz gives you a 1:33:48 and McMillan a 1:33:25, taking into consideration that your aerobic engine is up to snuff.

    Zarch


      Another hour 10/40/10 of Cross Trainer MAF in the bank yesterday: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/412217335

       

       

      Before I ran the 41:54 I was thinking of sub 1:40 for the HM, so maybe I will think about sub 1:35 now. Wink

       

      I'm still stunned and scratching my head how I ran 41:54.  I can only think it was joining a local running club back in July and going to their weekly speed session (a weekly mix of fartlek, hills, intervals etc) that has paid off.

       

      The general consensus(?) is that any training doesn't hit home until 6+ weeks onwards.  So that's what I think has happened.

       

      Before July my speed stuff was adhoc/crap and my mileage poor.

      But July onwards the speed stuff was regular and of better quality in addition to upping my slower mileage and doing more races.

       

      This got me thinking about how many miles i've been doing a week and what 'type' of miles they were.  So i've gone back through my entire Garmin records and compiled this spreadsheet.

       

      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhwkCNYeRMgxdDRRQy1pZ0NEZDB6R0JzdF9SRHBDUlE#gid=0

       

      As you can see, a significant uplift from the beginning of September onwards.

       

      Suppose I've cheated a bit including the cross trainer as miles, but they do constitute "work", so 9:00min/mile is a fair compromise methinks?

       

       

      cmon2 surely won't believe how I managed 44:04 last Dec and 1:43:16 back in May and just those miles.  I know I don't. Smile

        yes speed work can help (too).

         

        it's nice, doing this on such little mileage, seems like you got a lot of talent or perhaps a serious sports background from earlier.

         

        I'm sure you could get well under 1:20 or some such time for half marathon if you had time to train... :P

        Zarch


          Finally got my first outdoor MAF run completed.

           

          http://www.strava.com/activities/99167768

           

          initially tough to stay under 136ish, but ok once I found a few flat bits and got into the rhythm.  Ignore the max 174, HR monitor playing up. Sad

           

          It didn't seem as slow as it actually turned out..... pretty pleased.

            Finally got my first outdoor MAF run completed.

             

            http://www.strava.com/activities/99167768

             

            initially tough to stay under 136ish, but ok once I found a few flat bits and got into the rhythm.  Ignore the max 174, HR monitor playing up. Sad

             

            It didn't seem as slow as it actually turned out..... pretty pleased.

             

            well thats not bad. I think on flat terrain you could've had quite a bit faster average pace. that's the case with me, if I run on the hills here, my average pace at the same HR is slower. how much slower depends on how much elevation was accumulated on average per mile

            Zarch


              So much for best laid plans and all that. Unfortunately, due to vacation and the Christmas break i've not been able to get out and do anywhere near as much MAF miles as I wanted to do.

               

              Weekly Mileage Sheet

              https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhwkCNYeRMgxdDRRQy1pZ0NEZDB6R0JzdF9SRHBDUlE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

               

              6.5, 4.2, 8.0, 10.1 and 9.1 in single long runs in the weeks since I last reported in are not what i'd hoped for. Only now, back at work after Christmas and back into a normal family routine can I consider upping my miles, but I now have a dilemma.

               

              I've only got around 9 weeks of MAF under my belt and nowhere enough mileage completed to have made a dent into things I feel?

               

              The race season starts soon and my first race is a HM the first weekend in April, so just 12 weeks away. So what do I do?


              Plough on regardless with MAF for a few more weeks?  Before starting specific HM training?

               

              Or just abandon MAF now and start mixing my training up with tempo, intervals, hills etc in preparation for the HM?

               

              I'm actually leaning towards the following on a weekly basis:

              • Long run (but a varied paces and distances building towards the HM)
              • Attend intervals/track session for the speedy stuff
              • Cross Training machine at MAF (benefit from both MAF and overall body workout)

              As i've said before, I cannot commit to more than 3 sessions a week.

               

              Would love to hear what you think?

               

              PS. Ran a 5k over Christmas, just 3 weeks after running 41:54 for 10k...... only managed 21:02.... crazy game this running lark. Smile

              BeeRunB


                I understand vacation/life slowing the progress, such is the nature of the age-grouper beasthood. But we keep going anyway, dreaming of the PR.

                 

                As far as your plans with a race season coming up, and that 3-day schedule, take what you learned about aerobic speed (ave. pace at MAF) being your ultimate feedback. If your pace at MAF is moving north....good. If it's  moving south, or not moving at all over a month, maybe two.....adjust. If you add anaerobic work, it should improve. Keep track of the data. After you start racing, you should continue to improve. If you start to regress, and/or begin to feel injured and exhausted, it might be time to return to base work. Let aerobic speed be your guide.

                 

                Your body will always answer all your questions, and be the arbiter of your ego's grand experiments. Have fun!

                 

                 

                And never try anything new on race day! 

                 

                --Jimmy

                Zarch


                  Hi there,

                   

                  Back with an update after almost 2 months....... and I have to admit, I've been a naughty boy.

                   

                  I sorta gave up on MAF and embarked on a proper long run/tempo and interval weekly timetable and upping mileage to 20+ (see attached weekly log)

                   

                  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhwkCNYeRMgxdDRRQy1pZ0NEZDB6R0JzdF9SRHBDUlE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

                   

                  But I was still curious whether anything had changed with me, so ran another MAF test last night.

                   

                  Now, the last one I ran was back in November and I have learned some things since then.  Especially that my Garmin Footpod was a bit out when running on the treadmill.  Reporting a good 20 to 30 seconds per mile faster than i've been running.  So really, that November test can't be trusted. Sad

                   

                  I have since calibrated the footpod and i'm happy that last night's test is more accurate.

                   

                  To summarise;  42 years old, so 180 -42 = 138 and I ran the November test at -5 as I thought i was a non improver.

                  I ran last night's test at around 132 again to see how it matched up...... apart from the 4th MAF mile when I upped the HR to 138. Smile

                   

                  13th Nov 2013 (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/403884706)

                  15 min warmup
                  8:28 (130 HR)
                  8:33 (131 HR)
                  8:34 (131 HR)
                  8:39 (132 HR)
                  9:01 (130 HR)
                  10 min warm down

                   

                  27th Feb 2014 (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/452422927)
                  17 min warmup
                  8:29 (132 HR)
                  8:44 (132 HR)
                  8:46 (132 HR)
                  8:23 (138 HR)
                  11 min warm down

                   

                  Like I saw, I now can't trust the results of the first test. Sad

                   

                  Also, as you can see from the HR readings last night, the HRM was all over the place, just wouldn't settle down, one of the those days.  Also, the gym was hot and humid.... not an ideal HR testing environment. Sad

                   

                  Running my 2nd ever Half Marathon in 4 weekends time, aiming for sub 1:35;00, so planning on 7:15.

                   

                  Still not sure if i'm MAF 133 or 138...... my MAF treadmill test showed deflection at 135-37 back in November.

                   

                  Now i'm more confident in the footpod, I might do another test just before the HM and see where I am. Smile

                   

                  Cheers, Mick

                  BeeRunB


                    Why can't you trust the first test?

                     

                    Have your MAF runs gotten faster at the same HR?

                     

                    How about your tempo runs and intervals? (running these by HR is a great way to measure fitness)

                     

                    If everything has improved at the same HR, then you're on the right track right now.

                    Zarch


                      Knowing that my footpod was inaccurate for the first round of tests puts doubt in my mind about the validity of those numbers.  Hence, i'm 'down' over the test.

                       

                      I think i'm fitter than a I was, but would love to have some reliable data to back it up.

                       

                       

                      Anyway, had a 9 mile race yesterday.  Ran it with the intention of sticking to 7:15 min/mile as per my plan for the Half Marathon in 5 weekends time.  In the end, I ran it faster and felt rpretty good.  Finishing with an average of the 9 miles of 7:06min/mile.

                       

                      Do you think looking at my heart race through the race that I could have run faster through the first half?   I think I could have, but not sure how this would have left me for the final few miles?

                       

                      http://connect.garmin.com/activity/453838258

                        Hi there,

                         

                        Back with an update after almost 2 months....... and I have to admit, I've been a naughty boy.

                         

                         

                        Lol seriously maf isn't god's word.

                         

                         

                        Running my 2nd ever Half Marathon in 4 weekends time, aiming for sub 1:35;00, so planning on 7:15.

                         

                        Still not sure if i'm MAF 133 or 138...... my MAF treadmill test showed deflection at 135-37 back in November.

                         

                         

                        IMO just go with 138 then.

                         

                         

                         

                        Now i'm more confident in the footpod, I might do another test just before the HM and see where I am. Smile

                         

                         

                         

                        footpods are never gonna be reliable

                          Anyway, had a 9 mile race yesterday.  Ran it with the intention of sticking to 7:15 min/mile as per my plan for the Half Marathon in 5 weekends time.  In the end, I ran it faster and felt rpretty good.  Finishing with an average of the 9 miles of 7:06min/mile.

                           

                          Do you think looking at my heart race through the race that I could have run faster through the first half?   I think I could have, but not sure how this would have left me for the final few miles?

                           

                          http://connect.garmin.com/activity/453838258

                           

                          do you know your LT HR? how otherwise could this data be analysed? Smile ...EDIT: I see you run HM's at 155-160/165-170, I didn't remember that. I guess based on that you were doing about HM pace-ish stuff?

                           

                          however if you're unsure that you could've held a faster pace for the entire race, that's telling too. I dunno, only you can decide that.

                           

                          I guess you may about meet your 1:35 goal Big grin good luck Smile

                          Zarch


                            Hi all,

                             

                            Just thought i'd let you know how I got on with my Half Marathon attempt.

                             

                            I posted 1:33:06 on the watch, but a chip time of 1:32:57.  It was the ill fated Sheffield Half Marathon that was cancelled due to lack of water but everyone ran anyway because no one knew it had been cancelled.  But the public came out in droves and there was more water than the previous year. Smile

                             

                            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-26910318

                             

                            Pretty happy with it to be honest.  Although I did blow up the final 2 miles which cost me upto a minute.

                             

                            2014, 1:32:57 - http://www.strava.com/activities/127456951

                            2013: 1:42:16 - http://www.strava.com/activities/76746816

                             

                            I averaged 21 miles per week in the 13 week leading upto the HM over 3 sessions a week: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhwkCNYeRMgxdDRRQy1pZ0NEZDB6R0JzdF9SRHBDUlE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

                             

                            Aiming for 1 long, 1 tempo and 1 interval/speed session.

                             

                            Not sure why I died the last two miles.  The legs were certainly aching, but looking at the stats, my heart rate didn't really make any drastic movements apart from a silly sprint towards the end.

                             

                            So if heart was fine, but legs had gone, what training sorts that out?  What was I lacking?

                             

                            Onwards and upwards. Smile

                            BeeRunB


                              Congrats on an awesome time, Zarch!

                               

                              Slowing at the end is sometimes from starting faster than what you're capable of doing. For example, if your goal was 7:00 per mile, then staring out at 6:37 wouldn't be wise. Or if you're only capable of 7:00, then same thing. Starting out at 7:10, then getting up to 7:00 pace in the second mile would be wiser.

                               

                              Other times, it's an aerobic endurance thing. You need more aerobic volume if you want to be able to hold faster speeds. In my prime, it was lots of volume at MAF that brought the most improvement.

                               

                              I read about that half. Most can get away with not drinking for a few hours without a problem. Over-drinking is much worse.

                                Hi all,

                                 

                                Just thought i'd let you know how I got on with my Half Marathon attempt.

                                 

                                I posted 1:33:06 on the watch, but a chip time of 1:32:57.  It was the ill fated Sheffield Half Marathon that was cancelled due to lack of water but everyone ran anyway because no one knew it had been cancelled.  But the public came out in droves and there was more water than the previous year. Smile

                                 

                                http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-26910318

                                 

                                Pretty happy with it to be honest.  Although I did blow up the final 2 miles which cost me upto a minute.

                                 

                                2014, 1:32:57 - http://www.strava.com/activities/127456951

                                2013: 1:42:16 - http://www.strava.com/activities/76746816

                                 

                                I averaged 21 miles per week in the 13 week leading upto the HM over 3 sessions a week: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhwkCNYeRMgxdDRRQy1pZ0NEZDB6R0JzdF9SRHBDUlE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

                                 

                                Aiming for 1 long, 1 tempo and 1 interval/speed session.

                                 

                                Not sure why I died the last two miles.  The legs were certainly aching, but looking at the stats, my heart rate didn't really make any drastic movements apart from a silly sprint towards the end.

                                 

                                So if heart was fine, but legs had gone, what training sorts that out?  What was I lacking?

                                 

                                Onwards and upwards. Smile

                                 

                                congrats!

                                 

                                it doesn't mean much good that the HR didn't go up higher.

                                 

                                probably it means it didn't have anywhere higher to go. muscle fibers all fatigued from the pace/distance, no remaining fresh fibers available to push HR higher and keep pace without slowing.

                                 

                                you running this only on 21mpw  also wouldn't help with having the endurance for the half marathon. HR doesn't necessarily have to go higher in the last miles if your muscle fibers are really fatigue resistant.

                                 

                                what training sorts it out? more miles. better aerobic base and better aerobic capacity.

                                123