Low HR Training

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When is one ready to start adding maf+ (Read 39 times)

BeeRunB


     

    I can't say I know everything about Lydiard but afaik, he did not use HR based training - so every attempt here to connect his training to HR based methods is pure speculation. Sure it doesn't mean it can't work...

     

    "afaik"---cool word--translation? 

     

    Maffetone did know Lydiard and I'm not sure where I've seen or heard it, but Dr. Phil talks about it, and how they were close to being on the same page. If I can find it, I'll share it, C.

     

    Shondek has seen some correlation in his own training, and is trying to express it. I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what it is. As I've never been able to do any run at the same HR without slowing at some point. Especially here in the south. SO, I'm wondering if this is sort of like the heart time stuff I've done in the past, where I would stop at a certain point of stress in the workout.

       

      "afaik"---cool word--translation? 

       

      Maffetone did know Lydiard and I'm not sure where I've seen or heard it, but Dr. Phil talks about it, and how they were close to being on the same page. If I can find it, I'll share it, C.

       

      Shondek has seen some correlation in his own training, and is trying to express it. I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what it is. As I've never been able to do any run at the same HR without slowing at some point. Especially here in the south. SO, I'm wondering if this is sort of like the heart time stuff I've done in the past, where I would stop at a certain point of stress in the workout.

       

      I thought "afaik" was a common abbreviation on English sites Surprised anyway, it means "as far as I know" Smile

       

      I found an interview with Lydiard where he says to run by feel instead of HRM and I do think it's useful advice as long as one knows what the feel should be like. I still like using my HRM to keep track of the data, though. So I don't really agree with that interview Smile Here's the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20130722180929/http://www.runwashington.com/news/1072/325/Running-Faster-An-Interview-with-Arthur-Lydiard.htm

       

      Yes, I'm also trying to understand Shondek's ideas but honestly not managing too well so far. It seems to go against so much other stuff I've heard from good runners/coaches or experienced myself. I'm really not trying to attack Shondek personally or anything, though.

       

      As for the idea of constant HR /  pace relationship. It surely depends on several factors. In warm weather it will definitely be at a lower HR than in cold weather, this is my experience. It also seems individual. In other words, to the degree that it's individual it doesn't have to affect performance or fitness. There is of course a fitness factor too but that's not the only factor for the entire of the variability. My interpretation from that is that stress is also only part of it.

       

      Real life example on this: I know a guy who's got a 2:25 marathon PR. I saw his debate with another guy who claimed that in the marathon your HR should be constant (this guy has a 3:01 marathon PR but he's older too). The 2:25 guy can't keep his HR constant when running a marathon if he doesn't want the pace to slow. He gets a bit of a HR drift. He doesn't care about having zero HR drift in training either. Yet he runs 2:25. He's done a lot of Lydiard like training and that's how he got to 2:25. An "aerobigod" Wink (He did have 1:09 HM PR before starting on Lydiard but his marathon times were much slower.) My conclusion from watching all that debating was that HR drift to a degree really seems to be individual. Just like HR itself is individual Smile

      BeeRunB


         

        I thought "afaik" was a common abbreviation on English sites Surprised anyway, it means "as far as I know" Smile

         

         

        LOL. I thought it was Romanian.

        I can't keep up with the acronyms.

        Shondek


          Cmon2  have a large meal mostly pasta then go out a run ...keeping it at the same heart rate.....you'll probably find your fastest mile will be the first....fast for 16-24 hours and the first mile will be the slowest ...or walk at 85bpm for over an hour  and the fastest miles will be roughly after the hour mark...I think it nas something to do with fat/sugar  utilization ..that description of accelerated runs at the end are good for 'bringing you on '...I tended to do  them in races so i wouldnt accidentally lose form before racing begins

           

           

          I thought "afaik" was a common abbreviation on English sites Surprised anyway, it means "as far as I know" Smile

           

          I found an interview with Lydiard where he says to run by feel instead of HRM and I do think it's useful advice as long as one knows what the feel should be like. I still like using my HRM to keep track of the data, though. So I don't really agree with that interview Smile Here's the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20130722180929/http://www.runwashington.com/news/1072/325/Running-Faster-An-Interview-with-Arthur-Lydiard.htm

           

          Yes, I'm also trying to understand Shondek's ideas but honestly not managing too well so far. It seems to go against so much other stuff I've heard from good runners/coaches or experienced myself. I'm really not trying to attack Shondek personally or anything, though.

           

          As for the idea of constant HR /  pace relationship. It surely depends on several factors. In warm weather it will definitely be at a lower HR than in cold weather, this is my experience. It also seems individual. In other words, to the degree that it's individual it doesn't have to affect performance or fitness. There is of course a fitness factor too but that's not the only factor for the entire of the variability. My interpretation from that is that stress is also only part of it.

           

          Real life example on this: I know a guy who's got a 2:25 marathon PR. I saw his debate with another guy who claimed that in the marathon your HR should be constant (this guy has a 3:01 marathon PR but he's older too). The 2:25 guy can't keep his HR constant when running a marathon if he doesn't want the pace to slow. He gets a bit of a HR drift. He doesn't care about having zero HR drift in training either. Yet he runs 2:25. He's done a lot of Lydiard like training and that's how he got to 2:25. An "aerobigod" Wink (He did have 1:09 HM PR before starting on Lydiard but his marathon times were much slower.) My conclusion from watching all that debating was that HR drift to a degree really seems to be individual. Just like HR itself is individual Smile

             

            LOL. I thought it was Romanian.

            I can't keep up with the acronyms.

             

            er why romanian lol

             

             

            Cmon2  have a large meal mostly pasta then go out a run ...keeping it at the same heart rate.....you'll probably find your fastest mile will be the first....fast for 16-24 hours and the first mile will be the slowest ...or walk at 85bpm for over an hour  and the fastest miles will be roughly after the hour mark...I think it nas something to do with fat/sugar  utilization ..that description of accelerated runs at the end are good for 'bringing you on '...I tended to do  them in races so i wouldnt accidentally lose form before racing begins

             

             

            If I have the pasta 2-3 hrs before the run, it won't be affecting it. Otherwise, I find that if I eat just before a run it's fine but if I eat ~1 hr before, the HR can get messed up. You could say it's when insulin levels are highest in blood.  So yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't play a role. It doesn't have anything to do with pace though, I can keep a good pace. Just the HR will be messed up (higher).

             

            Otoh.. Why should I fast for 24 hours? That's not really good for training if one wants to be competitive. I don't know if it's good for health but it's not good for the muscles.

             

            IMO, before a race you'd be better off eating some neat carbs 2-3 hours before it or even 4 hours if you don't have blood sugar issues.

             

            Well for a more complete picture: for a short recovery run, it's quite okay to do it after a lot of fasting. Well I can even run as fast as MP that way without any problems and probably even faster but running intervals in that state could be damaging to the muscles.

             

            Strides are good, yes Smile

            BeeRunB


              Not Romanian---Hungarian!

              Excuse my memory discombombulation (MD).

               

               

               

              er why romanian lol

               

               

               

              If I have the pasta 2-3 hrs before the run, it won't be affecting it. Otherwise, I find that if I eat just before a run it's fine but if I eat ~1 hr before, the HR can get messed up. You could say it's when insulin levels are highest in blood.  So yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't play a role. It doesn't have anything to do with pace though, I can keep a good pace. Just the HR will be messed up (higher).

               

              Otoh.. Why should I fast for 24 hours? That's not really good for training if one wants to be competitive. I don't know if it's good for health but it's not good for the muscles.

               

              IMO, before a race you'd be better off eating some neat carbs 2-3 hours before it or even 4 hours if you don't have blood sugar issues.

               

              Well for a more complete picture: for a short recovery run, it's quite okay to do it after a lot of fasting. Well I can even run as fast as MP that way without any problems and probably even faster but running intervals in that state could be damaging to the muscles.

               

              Strides are good, yes Smile

                Not Romanian---Hungarian!

                Excuse my memory discombombulation (MD).

                 

                lol okay 

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