Low HR Training

1

Suitable Mileage (Read 503 times)


Slow-smooth-fast

    I have had great results from MAF training, though am a little bewildered as to how much time on my feet I should be? I mean to say that I feel great most of the time as it is nice easy running. But I would like to know if I should be limiting the amount of mileage that I do. I average around 50, though last week had a 65 mile week. It would be hard for me to do this every week, what with family etc. Is there a rule about how much is best? One more thing is that as I am becoming fitter and getting a more efficient base my pace is improving. Several miles within my runs are now sub 8, and some are even near to 7 minute mile pace down hills. So the runs are getting al ittle tougher to run at MAF, so therefore, my body I believe will find it harder to run at MAF at these paces for long distance weeks. What are your experiences and am I ok to take a day off? Should I always be striving to get more miles in? Is there a point of breakdown when it is just too much? Be interested in your thoughts.

    "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

      No offence, but when I checked your log I got quite confused what you are really doing. I assume you are using Garmin to check your distance and pulse, but you have quite seldom informed your AVE and MAX HR. I assume you use 152 as your MAF limit, because you are 28y. Following are HR that I found from your log. 5:20/km AVE 152 MAX 162 5:09/km AVE 152 4:48 AVE 150 MAX 159 4:58 AVE 148 4:43 AVE 155 Only one run is proper MAF run (4:58 AVE 148). Others are way too high HR. I dare to say that you have to restrict your HR more to do proper MAFfing. It is fine to let your HR to+2-4 in start of the uphills, before you get your HR under control. Still, you should run those uphills in your MAF or below. Especially because you are still young and your MAF is high you should stay strictly under your MAF. Keep proper log for few weeks and we can discuss more about your MAF training. If the tempo is too tough for you in your present MAF, you can always restrict your HR to lower rate. Why there are no clear results from runners in their 20-teens is because MAF is too high for a body to stay in proper aerobic work out. When I was 20-27y I used to do medium hard runs in 155-162 HR. That was close to my MAF. Just for example, Russians used to train all of their base training runs below 140, from 18y onwards. Keep up the good work!


      Slow-smooth-fast

        My MAF is 157 as I added 5 for running over 2 years. It feels right. Just that when I styarted it was very slow at this pave, now it feels faster. I may drop my MAF in this case.

        "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009


        Future running partner.

          I have had great results from MAF training, though am a little bewildered as to how much time on my feet I should be? I mean to say that I feel great most of the time as it is nice easy running. But I would like to know if I should be limiting the amount of mileage that I do. I average around 50, though last week had a 65 mile week. It would be hard for me to do this every week, what with family etc. Is there a rule about how much is best? One more thing is that as I am becoming fitter and getting a more efficient base my pace is improving. Several miles within my runs are now sub 8, and some are even near to 7 minute mile pace down hills. So the runs are getting al ittle tougher to run at MAF, so therefore, my body I believe will find it harder to run at MAF at these paces for long distance weeks. What are your experiences and am I ok to take a day off? Should I always be striving to get more miles in? Is there a point of breakdown when it is just too much? Be interested in your thoughts.
          As far as what is too much mileage goes. There is no set rule. It's purely and individual thing. In a perfect world, when you have enough time, the ideal would be to run as many miles as you possibly can without getting injured or overtraining. This varies from person to person based on experience. Pros and elites typically through experience learn what there limits are and typically run about 5 to 10% below that. I would say that to find out your ideal amount of time running. Look at your everyday life and allocate how much time you want to devote to running per week. Then using MAF training, slowly, carefully and consistently build up to that amount of time. If you find yourself consistently getting injured or wearing out at a specific mileage below that, hen subtract about 10% from that and limit yourself there. After a season or 2 of running at that mileage, you'll be faster and your body will be more adapted, so you can re-evaluate and increase your mileage some more.
            My MAF is 157 as I added 5 for running over 2 years. It feels right. Just that when I styarted it was very slow at this pave, now it feels faster. I may drop my MAF in this case.
            There is no any point for you to increase your MAF by 5 because of your age. Even I do not do it and I have been injury free for over 10 years. If I would do it my MAF would be 152. That is way too high to do proper MAFfing. Drop your MAF by 5-10 to 142-147 range. With that HR you get much better results and full benefits of MAFfing. Also, you can safely increase or sustain your mileage in that effort. Just to add few points how I tackle MAFfing. During winter I usually do my MAF runs in 130-140 range (my MAF 147). I build up the base, but I also lose some fast muscle power and start to feel restricted, no easy to speed up. At spring I speed up to my MAF and do all my easy runs in it. Gradually my legs start to speed up and I'm ready to summer orienteering competitions, if I'm doing any. This works for me and gives me variety in MAF training. My usual target for MAF pace is 4:30/km. That is not going to happen that easily any more, because I'm doing yoga 5 times per week and thus my time on running has been reduced to 1/3 what is was before. So, as you also said, lower your MAF and keep going.
              I don't really see anything wrong with adding 5. Especially during the summer. I might start right at MAF on a run (especially in hot/humid weather) and let it drift. However, I do run quite a few miles well below MAF as well. (runs with my wife, recovery runs at MAF -5), etc. so I don't really worry about it much. I wouldn't try doing all my runs at MAF +5, particularly if I was incorporating speedwork. I do know that in cool weather like today, if I was going at MAF +5, it would be a solid, yet tiring 12 mile run after the week I have planned. It was MAF -2 today though. Smile
                Aye, I use that +5 as a buffer to control my HR, especially up hills, and sometimes I also use it in down hills to speed up my legs. But, I would not use it in normal running situations if you are young. I am planning to drop 1HR per year until I'm 35 and then to keep my MAF in 145 for 3 years. After that, who knows.
                  Eddy, I checked with the LHR Board Of Governors (who reside in Lipids, County Cork, Ireland), and they approved the 5 extra beats for you, plus one beat for being so darn entertaining at parties. An added extra: from "The Maffetone Method" by Dr. Philip Maffetone ©2000, Ragged Mountain Press: "Once you find your maximum aerobic heart rate (MAF) and exercise successfully at that rate, continue to use the same rate for about 4-5 years if health and fitness continue to progress. Then decrease by about 3 beats." Some key words are "successfully" and "continue to progress." Have fun. --Jimmy

                  Log & Profile            Crusted Salt #210

                    ...What are your experiences and am I ok to take a day off?... Should I always be striving to get more miles in? ... Is there a point of breakdown when it is just too much? Be interested in your thoughts.
                    1) sure, it's ok to take a day off if you feel like it 2) you don't need to push it getting more miles in... work up slowly 3) yes, sometimes there is a point of breakdown, but if you work up slowly, you'll know when to level off Years ago when 60-65 mpw was the then-current wisdom for what one needed for a marathon, I found I could stay there just fine. Then I went up to 75 mpw, and that was ok, but I had to have a fall-back week maybe once a month. When I tried moving up to 85 mpw it seemed a bit too much for my body to do every week. So I just relaxed about the whole thing and ran for enjoyment, and the average mileage stabilized somewhere, definitely above 60. Usually a nice easy long run of 4 - 4.5 hours every weekend on park trails, maybe 28 miles or so... once in a while a "birthday" run (like 41 miles on 41st birthday, etc.) For me, striving every day for more miles never worked... I would reach a point where I just had to take a day off (or 2 days?). Just going out to run relaxed and easy, the amount that felt good, seemed to work. The upper limit is different for different folks. I had a buddy who ran 100+ mpw and he seemed to thrive on it. His body was just built stronger. One comment about the "MAF" HR for training. A good VO2 test can show you what that is for sure, not just what a formula with some adjustments will give you. You can get a good idea of where the "inflection point" in the RER vs HR (RQ vs HR) curve is, and that's what Maffetone based his recommendations on. Take care, and enjoy the running.