Low HR Training

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What about race pace after base is built? (Read 59 times)

RunnerGalBeth


    Earlier this week I came across this forum and have done my last two training runs (or walks) at a max of 109 HR per the rough results of the "formula."  I am convinced already because I felt great after the last two 4-mile runs...er walks!  so, here is my question.  In May I will be competing in my first Half.  I understand that my speed will improve but is there a recommendation of what my HR should remain under during the race?  I am looking for the book, but in the meantime am eager for input.  thanks in advance!

      Hi RG Beth

       

      If you are going to race by HR, it's going to take some trial and error to find your zones for particular races. One helpful tool is the Team Oregon Pace Wizard (click).

       

      It gives average HR's for different race lengths based on your maximum heart rate that I find are pretty close to the truth for me. For a half marathon it gives me about 89% MHR, or 179 bpm. If I ran by heart rate, I wouldn't run at 179 bpm the whole race. If you were to run by pace in a race, normally HR increases as you execute the pace plan. For example, below is pace and HR info from a 10k I ran. I ran this race by pace, not HR, but wore a watch to get the HR data:

       

      8:00  172
      8:02  182
      8:06  187
      8:08  191
      8:26  192
      7:55  194
      2:28  198

       

      average HR: 187 bpm

      Team Oregon Pace Wizard ave. HR for a 10k for 200 bpm MHR: 187 bpm or 94% MHR

       

      As you can see, I didn't run at 187 the whole race. Running at a near even feel and pace, my HR spanned 172-198 bpm. I was near max in the last .2 miles I gave it everything I had left in me.

       

      If I ran by heart rate, I would make a HR plan that mirrored this. Keeping it simple, I could just get my HR up to about 85-87% MHR by the end of the first mile, then hold that pace/feel. My heart rate then should rise as my muscle fibers get exhausted.

       

      For a half marathon, the Pace Wizard gives me  89%. Perhaps its wise for me to start a half marathon at about 80-82% MHR, then hold that pace.

       

      I recorded HR in a marathon once and the first 3 miles were in the 76-81% range. I averaged 86% MHR for the race or 173 bpm. Pace Wizard gives 172 bpm for my MHR.  Close.

       

      Since your HR might do something different than mine when holding an even pace, you'll have to use trial and error to tweak your zone. Once you think you've nailed a zone and a method, you can use it forever if you wish. You just need to keep track of MHR over the years. Use a running test to determine MHR, not any of the formulas.

       

      One of the perks of running by HR in races is that it takes guesswork about proper pace out of the picture. It will help you adjust correctly on hot days, and days when your body is just plain blah.

       

      --JimmyCool

      log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

       

      RunnerGalBeth


        Thanks Jimmy.  This is very encouraging.

        dwillens


          I just ran my first half marathon by HR (Carlsbad) a week ago Sunday.  My plan via the "how does MAF equate to race pace" thread and the Team Oregon Pace Wizard was to try to run at 155-160 bpm which would theoretically correspond to my planned marathon pace (LA Marathon March 17) of 9:22. The HR given by the Wizard for a half marathon was 162 which was closer to 9:00/min pace but I did not want to use that pace as this was only practice for the marathon.

           

          As it turns out, I started at 155 and that was a 9:29 mile.  The course was somewhat hilly so I did not really have a consistent pace but I tried to hold something close to 9:15-9:30 pace and as I did so my heart rate slowly increased from 155-156-161-162 and the last mile (sped up but definitely not all-out) was 166.  If I were really racing the half rather than doing it as a marathon tuneup, I probably would have started a little closer to the stated HR of 162.  In any event, I did not have any trouble maintaining average of 162 BPM for the length of the half marathon.  That works out to 89% mHR for me or thereabouts.

           

          So for me I think that the Pace Wizard numbers came out pretty good.

           

          Damon

           

          ps reading JimmyB's post again, I think what I did was basically what he says about starting at around 85% mHR and then basically holding that pace and letting the HR drift up through the race so that at the end the average was close to 89% mHR.  That worked pretty well for me though as he says I would think that you would need some trial and error to see how low to start and still end up in the neighborhood of your planned average.  I was reading some posts earlier today in another forum that suggested that it might be a bad idea to start by HR since the adrenaline of the race experience (runners, spectators, etc) might give you an early HR that is higher than your real level of effort, resulting in a beginning pace that is too slow.  So who knows?


          Bad Ass

            Great responses.  I am not an expert on HR racing but I now race all my races by HR (approximate HRs for the respective distances).  Like jimmy said, it's a bit of trial and error but once you find the right HR to race at, the race goes really well.  At least that has been my experience.

            Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

            Next:  RnR Country Music Half Marathon

            Blog

            "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

              I was reading some posts earlier today in another forum that suggested that it might be a bad idea to start by HR since the adrenaline of the race experience (runners, spectators, etc) might give you an early HR that is higher than your real level of effort, resulting in a beginning pace that is too slow.  So who knows?

               

              Great post, Damon.

               

              I wouldn't worry about the adrenaline-HR story people tell. It's not like your HR is suddenly racing 15 beats above normal or something. If your HR was a little higher at the start due to nerves, then you might just start a little slower at the same HR. That won't hurt you at all. Observing race reports and hearing stories from other runners, I've come to the conclusion that the majority of marathoners start too fast (much faster than the pace they can actually run), and almost always sabotage the second half. Starting a little slow will make for a better second half.

               

              Any pre-race nerves almost always disappear within the first mile or so, as does any effect there might have been on your HR from any hormonal rush.

               

              --J

              log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #142

               

              dwillens


                Thanks jimmyb.

                 

                ps:

                 

                San Diego RNR Half Marathon June 3, 2012 (pre-MAF training) = 2:20

                Carlsbad Half Marathon January 27, 2013 (four months' MAF training) = 2:07

                 

                So something is working.  Big grin


                Chasing the bus

                   

                  ... It's not like your HR is suddenly racing 15 beats above normal or something...

                   

                  I can actually see mine spike at quiet side street crossings, let alone a busy intersection! It'll be interesting to watch it on a race start. I have one I want to run at MAF HR  next month...

                  “You're either on the bus or off the bus.”
                  Tom Wolfe, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test

                    yeah it's trial and error, I find I can't just stick to one specific HR plan for one specific distance... it's dependent on several factors...  two main factors being the temperature and my leg muscles having a good or less good day.

                     

                    in higher temps I can race at higher HR and average significantly higher. and as for the legs, on such a "bad day" the HR will go up less, no breathing trouble, legs are more the bottleneck instead, yet this doesn't have to mean a bad race time, it can be a very good race still. just different bottleneck on such days, that's all. on average days and especially on hot days the bottleneck is clearly HR instead of legs Smile

                     

                    so for me pacing in a race is an art. but that just makes it more interesting Smile

                     

                    examples (both were in cold weather):

                     

                    1) HM race with legs having bad day but ending up with great big PR:

                     

                    avg HR 185bpm

                    177bpm after first mile, going up steadily, 186bpm halfway, 189-190 bpm in last mile

                     

                    2) HM race with legs more normal, HR somehow wanting to go pretty high, I wasn't in 100% shape due to having done little training (PR anyway but only because I didn't try the distance in a while):

                     

                    avg HR 190bpm

                    185bpm after first mile, going up then holding almost even, 192bpm halfway, 193bpm in last mile

                     

                    my maxHR is around 210-ish.

                     

                    btw team oregon pace wizard is a bit off for me. it says 188bpm for HM by default based on 210bpm max, if I add the data of 190bpm for HM average, I get 198 for 10k... I can only average that for 10K in hot weather though

                       I was reading some posts earlier today in another forum that suggested that it might be a bad idea to start by HR since the adrenaline of the race experience (runners, spectators, etc) might give you an early HR that is higher than your real level of effort, resulting in a beginning pace that is too slow.  So who knows?

                       

                      I agree. I don't give a hoot about HR in the first mile or so, it'd just be stress for me to bother with it. instead I have a general idea about what race pace I might be able to do and I'll hover around that until HR gets warmed up/steady - even after that I pay more attention to pace itself and HR is only checked to avoid going past a certain ceiling (ceiling is different for first part of race than for later parts, of course). of course if HR shows the pace is too fast for some reason, I slow down and set new pace based on HR... I think you get it how I do that Smile

                       

                      I used to have my HR affected very much by race start, people etc, that's when I decided on this strategy instead. it was just added stress that I did not need. this helped me very much Smile and now my HR is actually pretty normal at starting exactly because of how I don't care Smile HR still needs to warm-up though so I don't use it in first mile for that reason too