Low HR Training

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MAF success! (Read 1319 times)


Don't overstride!

    as far as I understood, this best possible marathon HR according to Hadd means that you are running a 2: xx marathon, way inside 3 hours. apparently, the faster you get it done the higher the avg HR can be. for a 180max HR and 3:30 marathon MARCO calculator recommends an avg of 156, that I assume includes some HR drift over 26miles as it makes you start at 141 or so (though of course that is a slightly slower pace than the avg pace but not that much slower).

     

    oregon calculator recommends 155 avg HR for a 3:30 marathon.

     

    on the other hand, if you can do 8minute miles at 145 and you manage to run the 3:30 off that, then your marathon HR is again not 160 (it may drift to 160 after a long time of running  though)..

     

    of course I could be wrong but I think 160 is more likely too high than not.

     

    C,

     

    Yes I agree that 160bmp avg would be too high. HADD just gives a figure of Max less 20 as the ultimate achievable. I not being a professional athlete could not attain such feat.

     

    I'm just trying to figure out a way to gradually get my body used to higher heart rates with out injuring myself.

     

    HADD seemed to have a logical way of slowly stepping the HR closer to the AT without sacrificing the base building efforts.

     

    I just picked 145 BMP because that was the starting point he suggested. I guess after reading DR. Mafftone's book I guess  I've got Anaerobiphobia. Smile

     

    I will look into oregon calculator also.

     

    Thanks C!


    Don't overstride!

      Oregon pace wizard:  Your HR needs to be 150. It projects my HR needs to be 142 which is 220-156=144(3:42: x x)

      For  a HM TO had 148 HR/ 1:51:05-- I did 1:47:51  AHR 164 Oct 2010. 1:54:59 HR AHR160 Oct 2009. Same course.

      4 heart beats faster 7 minutes faster.What do your Maff test look like?

      9/09----1st mile 11:47--maff 125

      10/10--1st mile 10:30--maff 125

       

      <center>

      Projected Race Performances

      </center>

      The following race performance predictions assume that you have adequate endurance training. This is a specific requirement for the longer distances. Your projected performances for standard running distances are:

             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
      Distance Pace Avg HR    
      0.50 Mile  11:54.0 129    
      0.50 Mile  12:07.8  129    
       0.50 Mile  12:07.8  129    
       0.50 Mile  12:10.7  129    
       0.50 Mile  12:25.6  129    
       0.50 Mile  12:14.7  129    
      3.50 Mile  12:10.4 Avg  129    
               
               

       

      I am pretty new to postiing stuff on forums so this meger table took me 20 minutes to figure out.Joking

        It projects my HR needs to be 142 which is 220-156=144(3:42: x x)

         

         

         

        for the oregon, I always enter actual max HR (that's how I got the 155 above), I don't just enter an age so it does not use the crappy 220-age formula to calculate maxHR.

          C,

           

          Yes I agree that 160bmp avg would be too high. HADD just gives a figure of Max less 20 as the ultimate achievable. I not being a professional athlete could not attain such feat.

           

          I'm just trying to figure out a way to gradually get my body used to higher heart rates with out injuring myself.

           

          HADD seemed to have a logical way of slowly stepping the HR closer to the AT without sacrificing the base building efforts.

           

          I just picked 145 BMP because that was the starting point he suggested. I guess after reading DR. Mafftone's book I guess  I've got Anaerobiphobia. Smile

           

          I will look into oregon calculator also.

           

          Thanks C!

           

           

           

          yeah, I like the Hadd way though I myself never had trouble at high heart rates like his Joe example did. suppose it's again an individual thing.

           

          you should not have anaerobiphobia, because workouts over MAF are just as useful as workouts below MAF. they can increase your speed even at MAF HR. such runs work other systems too, though. it can be counterproductive to the aerobic base if you do too much. so that's why for a marathon don't train like you do for a 5K. the marathon is a lot less anaerobic than a 5K.


          Don't overstride!

            My fastest marathon came off a base period using mostly MAF -10 and below (which was part of an experiment in high volume, I went low to reduce stress).  Dr. Phil also writes about such athletes and that many have turned themselves into fine endurance athletes using HR's below that ten beat zone below MAF. Like any form of training, you have to find your optimum training load with using HR's that low. There's a certain amount of volume you will have to hit before you see a steady improvement.

             

            --Jimmy

             

             

            Jimmy,

             

            Did my 1st MAF-10 run yesterday and it felt surprisingly good.

             

            I am with you on the high volume Lydiard type base building. I will just be patient while keeping an eye on my MAF tests looking for plateaus. When the MAF tests indicate I can run a BQ pace I will then sign up for a marathon. I might run the Newport Amica Half this fall though.

            Thanks for all your help.Smile

             

            Dave


            Don't overstride!

              Wow Clay 50K's! That's great!

               

              I also looked at your training page. Your putting over ten hours a week in!

              I would like to get up to around ten hours, but my wife is worried that I am over doing this running thing. Maybe in the fall when the honey do list shrinks a little.Shy

               

              Dave

              bertrand


                MAFF PREDICTION CHART

                 

                MAF....5k pace....5k time.....Marathon.....Mpace

                13:00...9:00.........27:57..........4:32:29.......10:25

                 

                I am not so sure about that one. 2 weeks ago i had a 5K in 31'15'' and my first mile 2 days ago for my first MAF test was 12'37''. I am pretty positive i had a max effort on that 5k. Anybody has data in the same range?

                Bertrand

                 

                PR: 5k  31'15'' (220 lbs)

                  I am not so sure about that one. 2 weeks ago i had a 5K in 31'15'' and my first mile 2 days ago for my first MAF test was 12'37''. I am pretty positive i had a max effort on that 5k. Anybody has data in the same range?

                   

                  It would be a good idea to have your log open to others for viewing when asking for advice, especially in this forum.

                   

                  MTA: The chart also assumes you are trained and have good fitness. Since you are just starting out from years of little activity, I would not think you fit into that category.

                   

                  The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                   

                  2014 Goals:

                   

                  Stay healthy

                  Enjoy life

                   


                  Don't overstride!

                    I view the chart that Clay provided as tool used to assess fitness not as absolute predictor of performance. Allot of other variables can affect performance (heat, humdity, etc.) What were the conditions like. I read if the heat and humidity added together exceed 150 then don't expect a PR.

                      I am not so sure about that one. 2 weeks ago i had a 5K in 31'15'' and my first mile 2 days ago for my first MAF test was 12'37''. I am pretty positive i had a max effort on that 5k. Anybody has data in the same range?

                       

                       

                      the table also does not work for me. predicts much worse PR's than what I have, and before that it used to be the other way around for longer distances, e.g. it predicted better PR for half marathon than I actually had =) (short distances were better than predicted, just the HM was worse)

                       

                       

                      btw, don't forget, your first mile was without full warmup.

                        I view the chart that Clay provided as tool used to assess fitness not as absolute predictor of performance. Allot of other variables can affect performance (heat, humdity, etc.) What were the conditions like. I read if the heat and humidity added together exceed 150 then don't expect a PR.

                         

                        fitness is better assessed in field tests or in races than using such tables


                        Don't overstride!

                          C,

                           

                          Isn't that like determining if you're ready for an exam by taking that exam? I am probably allot older than you are and races take longer for me to recuperate.Dead

                          runnerclay


                          Consistently Slow

                            fitness is better assessed in field tests or in races than using such tables

                             The charts are just training aid. The marathon time you run in New Orleans (flat) is not the time you will run in The Catskills (mtn).  Even with perfect conditions  in each location.

                            I use the charts to gauge a desired pace.

                            Run until the trail runs out.

                             SCHEDULE 2016--

                             The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                            unsolicited chatter

                            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                               

                              MAF....5k pace....5k time.....Marathon.....Mpace

                              7:30....6:00..........18:38..........3:01:39...........6:56
                              7:00....5:30..........17:05..........2:46:32...........6:22

                               


                               

                              Is this MAF pace the 1st mile split in the 5-mile test or avg pace of the 5-mile test?

                               

                              I am using 180-age as my MAF HR (150). Did a 5-mile MAF test today:

                              mile   pace   avgHR

                              1       7:05    143

                              2       7:18    150

                              3       7:22    150

                              4       7:18    151

                              5       7:23    151

                               

                              In my trainings, I use

                              MAF-30 to MAF-20 (120-130) as my recovery run HR,

                              MAF-20 to MAF-10 (130-140) as my easy run HR,

                              MAF-10 to MAF (140-150) as my moderate long run/medium long run HR.

                               

                              Btw, my Max HR is 188. in my previous two marathon races, my average HR were the same: MAF+16 (166).


                              Don't overstride!

                                I believe so from what I have read on this sight. Your pace at MAF is very good! Keep up the good work.Smile

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