Low HR Training

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what am I doing wrong? (Read 596 times)

gebuh


    I started trying some LHR a couple of months ago, I didn't expect overnight miraculous results- but dang it, why am I not only not progressing, but going backwards? My last several runs have been crap, walking more than running. I had got to where I could go 2 miles before my hr started spiking- now I get barely over a mile. How do I get past this?


    run-easy-race-hard

      Just a few thoughts. First, your mileage is very low. Extremely low, even. Next, I can't tell how old you are, but I'm seeing max heart rates in the low to mid 160s. That doesn't sound low at any age. Lastly, I didn't see any temperature or dewpoint data to see if that's a factor. For many people, one has to stay very strictly below the MAF for real progress.
      gebuh


        I haven't been running long enough to rack up mileage- I just got back on the road in december. I'm not doing MAF- I can't run at the MAF for my age (46), so I settled on 153-162 as a starting point. I was seeing some improvement, hr's in the 140's sometimes, going further before I had to start walking and shorter walk times.
          Just a few thoughts. First, your mileage is very low. Extremely low, even.
          Sorry to highjack the thread, but this may help gebuh as well - what kind of base mileage should somebody have for LHR running to make sense? Eliz

          flomotioncoaching.com


          run-easy-race-hard

            I haven't been running long enough to rack up mileage- I just got back on the road in december. I'm not doing MAF- I can't run at the MAF for my age (46), so I settled on 153-162 as a starting point. I was seeing some improvement, hr's in the 140's sometimes, going further before I had to start walking and shorter walk times.
            Gotcha - you're doing more traditional type of training then, more in the anaerobic regime. I wouldn't expect to see low HR training results (but that's not to say your running can't improve - you would just have to identify different goals and metrics that you're shooting for). So, I wouldn't say you're doing anything wrong, nor would I be concerned about your results. I would expect pace at heart rate to be somewhat arbitrary since you're likely running in a mostly carb burning regime. Nonetheless, I would assume that your fitness would improve over time, just because you're running, but I wouldn't expect much progress on your aerobic development. And there's nothing wrong with that - most of us have different goals.


            run-easy-race-hard

              Sorry to highjack the thread, but this may help gebuh as well - what kind of base mileage should somebody have for LHR running to make sense? Eliz
              There's no magic number. Take a look at the FAQ in my signature - it's addressed in various ways and you may see a few Qs that are very applicable to you. I will say this, however - if one is running no more than 15 miles per week consistently, I wouldn't expect any significant short-term progress. However, once again, I'm really just talking about low HR training, not running in general.
              RER


                It's really simple -- do the 180 formula (and be honest) to figure out your HR, then just go out and run, and don't exceed your HR. If you're not improving within the month, something is wrong with you, not the program. Be patient, enjoy it, and you'll get faster and healthier.
                  There's no magic number. Take a look at the FAQ in my signature - it's addressed in various ways and you may see a few Qs that are very applicable to you. I will say this, however - if one is running no more than 15 miles per week consistently, I wouldn't expect any significant short-term progress. However, once again, I'm really just talking about low HR training, not running in general.
                  I will say that I received this same advice from Jesse. Since I started getting into the 40-50 miles per week range for my marathon, things have gotten much better. I started out in the 13+ minute per mile range, and now am in the 11:10 - 11:40 range all under my maf of 144. It's tough to get there, but when you do it feels really good. And, when you start going above MAF it's great because you really do have true endurance. I've run two 20+ milers in the past two weeks, and NEVER would have been able to do that before MAF training.
                  C-R


                    I agree with Cfkid. I just started seeing results and I reached the 35 mpw level. I expect more as I bump up mileage. Stick with it. IMO its worth it and the group on this forum is great at helping.


                    "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                    "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                    http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                    gebuh


                      thanx for the advice, like I said, I'm not expecting miracles or dramatic improvement- but I didn't expect to lose ground. I'll try to stick to a maf of 144, I guess it couldn't hurt, but that pretty much means walking.


                      run-easy-race-hard

                        thanx for the advice, like I said, I'm not expecting miracles or dramatic improvement- but I didn't expect to lose ground. I'll try to stick to a maf of 144, I guess it couldn't hurt, but that pretty much means walking.
                        Good luck - sticking under 144 may or may not give rise to some progress. If it still has you in a high carb-burning state, then you won't see the low HR training trends. Nonetheless, it is understandable that everyone has a threshold for patience! Let us know how it goes over a period of time.
                          Good luck - sticking under 144 may or may not give rise to some progress. If it still has you in a high carb-burning state, then you won't see the low HR training trends. Nonetheless, it is understandable that everyone has a threshold for patience! Let us know how it goes over a period of time.
                          Again, I'll have to agree with Jesse. I had 6 months strictly at or below MAF. A lot of people will tell you that a tough run is going out fast and maintaining it. I think staying under MAF when that alarm keeps going off, and you KNOW you can go faster is the toughest. I asked many times on this site if it was working, if I should just call it quits, etc. I'm glad I stuck with it, even though I had to walk a lot in the beginning.
                            I haven't been running long enough to rack up mileage- I just got back on the road in december. I'm not doing MAF- I can't run at the MAF for my age (46), so I settled on 153-162 as a starting point. I was seeing some improvement, hr's in the 140's sometimes, going further before I had to start walking and shorter walk times.
                            If you aren't seeing improvement here, then going *faster* will almost certainly not help you either, and will just lead to injuries, etc. That range is pretty high/aggressive unless you are a very well conditioned (elite?) athlete. Are you on any medications that might increase your heart rate? Just keep at it. Work down to 155, then 153, then 150, etc. It will take time. If you have weight to lose, then lose it. If you aren't eating well, start eating better. Get plenty of rest. It all adds up, and such "non running" factors help some of us much more than others. Lastly, I'll reiterate the mileage factor. Once you hit certain mileage levels and sustain them for a while, things can take a fairly dramatic turn for the better. Hang in there, and most of all enjoy your running! Smile
                            northrup


                              I'm far from an expert but I can give you my experience as a relatively new MAF runner. When I started I was very slow but improved quite quickly over the first month or so. Then I hit a plateau where my pace just wouldn't budge for about the next three or four weeks. I remember I even regressed to a much slower pace and had pretty much decided to give up on the whole idea of LHR running. As a last ditch effort I decided to increase my mileage and that's when things started to take off. I had been running about 3-4 miles daily(if I recall correctly - unfortunately I didn't keep a log then). I increased to 4-5 miles daily with one slightly longer run midweek and a long run on the weekend. That seemed to do the trick for me. So, an average week would have been about 34 - 40 miles before I started to see pace improvements.
                              BeeRunB


                                thanx for the advice, like I said, I'm not expecting miracles or dramatic improvement- but I didn't expect to lose ground. I'll try to stick to a maf of 144, I guess it couldn't hurt, but that pretty much means walking.
                                No shame in walking. Add a little running at a time. Think LONG term--like the rest of your life. The walk-run/MAF thing will prepare you for MAF running. MAF running will prepare you for hard racing/training. One step at a time. One aerobic bing-bing at a time, until it is a bushel off aerobic bing-bings. Until you are running everything, bouncing off fences and going "bing-bing-bing! MAFochet wabbit!" This thread counts as an official weird-ass whine. You have two left. --Jimmy
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