Ace, Ouch. I once had something very similar. It wasn't the knee, but more like the top of the calf to the side nearish the knee. I rested a bit, then Gallow-trained for a few weeks and it was better. I kept up my mileage but took a walk break every 5 minutes for a minute. It kept the pain away. I kept building up the time between breaks and finally started running everything again. This exercise can really help with this: Click Do very, very, VERY slowly. I also got religious about warm-up and cooldown. P.S. Are you a calf stretcher? If so, you might consider not stretching them anymore. Can do some people more harm than good. --Jimmy
I'm not sure if I should bag the marathon idea or not. I guess I will take it one day at a time and see what happens. I'd rather be fully prepared and 99% healthy to attempt a marathon. However, I am married to a half-human/half-machine who did 75% of her training for her first marathon on an elliptical (stress fracture), only had a year's running experience, and went out and ran a 3:48 in her first one.
Nice half Jimmy & 20-miler Greg. I did 17.4 miles on Saturday afternoon. I planned on 18 and this was my first long run where I did not try to stay under MAF. My recovery jog planned for Sunday would put me over 50 miles/week for the first time, but I was bitten (hopefully not too hard) by the injury bug. Backing up for a minute, I've complained on this forum a little about some tightness behind my left knee- maybe a month ago. When I pushed around with my fingers, the small area of pain was actually at the very top of my calf, not really the knee. I iced it for a few days and it went away. In the past month, I've felt it a little from time-to-time during runs. It was a little worse last weekend when I did 17, but I took a recovery day and and off day after that and felt fine on Tuesday. So, I was running Saturday and I felt the back of knee issue again towards the later miles. It was getting uncomfortable around mile 15.5, and it seemed like my left calf was tightening up. So, I stopped to do a brief light calf stretch. Well, that turned out to be a big mistake as the stretch caused my entire calf to lock up/cramp/spasm. I still had 2.5 miles to get to my car, and I had promised to take my kids somewhere that evening and did not have time to walk to the car and make it on time. So, I broke the rule about running through pain and did a limp-jog for another few miles until I was within 5-10 minutes walking time to my car. I had pain just walking around Saturday evening and most of Sunday, especially up and down stairs. The back of my knee swollen- not horribly, but if you feel the left knee versus the right there is definetely some swelling. My self diagnosis is some tendonitis/damage to the posterior cruciate ligament based on the area that it swollen. However, there really is no pain in the swollen area, but rather just at the top of my calf muscle (where this ligament connects to the lower leg?). I iced a lot yesterday, which seemed to help. I was able to do 20 minutes of elliptical pain free, but I had to crouch a little while on the elliptical to avoid the pain of fuilly straightening my left leg. From what I have read, the posterior cruciate ligament is typically damaged by a hyperextension. I don't know if I did that in the past month (stepping in a pothole or something) or if it a overuse/repeated impact issue. I guess it could also be damaged calf muscle issue, but I am not sure why the entire posterior cruciate ligament would be swollen if that was the case. However, if it was just the posterior cruciate ligament, I don't know why my entire calf locked up on me Saturday. I am going to do the ice/ibuprofin/light elliptical therapy for now and see what happens. I won't attempt to run again until I can walk, including up/down stairs, without pain. Back to my run- I wanted to keep my pace in the 9:30-10:30 range, figured my HR would be around the 150-165 range and would not let my HR get much above 170. I did not have an exact pace plan (i.e. breaking the run into quarters) since I was doing a big hill in the middle of the run. I ended up at a 10:04 pace for the run with an average HR of 161. http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/5036823
Thanks for the knee strengthening exercise. I typically do at least a half-mile walk before and after runs, sometimes more afterward. I can always do a little more. I used the run-walk technique coming back from other injuries, but this is my first knee injury so I'm glad to see it worked for you. I do calf stretches sometimes, but I try to keep them light. I have a weird thing when often I will have a horrible pain in my right shin the first mile or two of a run that loosens up and goes away eventually. If I start getting this pain and stop and do 30 seconds of calf/soleus stretches--POOF--it goes away. I found I can pre-empt this shin pain with some light stretching after my walk warmup. So- that's why I do a little calf stretching. Right now, I can do the soleus-type wall pushup stretches no problem, but the wall pushup that stretches the upper portion of the calf muscle would hurt like hell if I attempted it. Hamstring stretches are bad news right now as well. I'm not sure if I should bag the marathon idea or not. I guess I will take it one day at a time and see what happens. I'd rather be fully prepared and 99% healthy to attempt a marathon. However, I am married to a half-human/half-machine who did 75% of her training for her first marathon on an elliptical (stress fracture), only had a year's running experience, and went out and ran a 3:48 in her first one.
That exercise will strengthen and loosen the shins, calves, and ankles. Also, try balancing on one foot, then close your eyes--open them if your falling, then close again. This will also strengthen the lower leg, ankles, feet, shins. One more thing, I kept ALL runs MAF runs while rehabbing. You are obviously overstressing your body with too much training load. Back off. Ask yourself these questions: How long are you taking between long runs (18+)? (2-3 weeks between is advisable, 3 if you're a beginner) Have you built volume too quickly? (faster than 5-10%, 5-7% for a beginner is advisable)) Are you following every hard day with an easy day at MAF or rest? (so important) Are you cutting back 20% or more every 3rd-4th week? (more is advisable for beginners) The Pfitzinger progression long runs might be too much for you right now. Mental side ( i don't expect you to reply to these , keep it private): Is "success" weighing on your mind? Are you afraid to fail? (in your first marathon, it is so important to make finishing the goal, instead of a certain time. Wanting to achieve a time too badly can sometimes make us go too hard too fast too soon) If so, take the pressure off yourself. I realized this during my first marathon. I knew long before I hit the wall that I wouldn't achieve my goal, and I relaxed for the first time in months and started to have a better time. The end was tough, but at least I let myself off the hook, and was ecstatic to just finish--I knew then that should have been my goal all along. None of this may apply to you, of course. It's just that I've seen all this in me in my meager 5 years of running. Take care. --Jimmy
I have a balance board I can break out for the one-foot eyes closed thing as well. Yes- I will do all MAF of course. I will be thrilled when I can run slow w/o pain. As far as training load- I am having the knee issues on long runs. I don't know if my problem is overall miles, long run miles or the hillier routes I am running on my long runs (probably a combo). My long runs the past 8 weeks have been 16, 17, 18.5, 16 (first time I felt the back of knee problem), 9, 20, 17, 17.5 (last one was supposed to be 18). So yeah, maybe I should add a 12 miler every 3rd week. .
Master of Inconsistency
Ain't Wastin' Time No More !
Ace , Sorry to hear about your injury ,good thing you were ahead of schedule . I think you'll come back quickly as you are doing what is needed . My left knee is bugging me a bit also so I'll have to follow Jimmy's Sage advice myself. Sincerely hoping you heal quickly, Greg
Max McMaffelow Esq.
All of this injury talk definitely has me thinking. I'm contemplating a half-marathon on June 7th. I have 15 weeks. I was about to ask for advice as to when and if I should start doing some of these faster runs given my low base milage. I'm only at 32 miles/wk, but could easily be at 40 within 2 months. Maybe that's not enough to support speed work? I'll have to think about it. Fortunately, this is a smaller race. I can register the day of the race.
Bdags, There is nothing to fear,I am here to make your mistakes for you ! Just train intelligently and you'll have no problem. 15 weeks is plenty of time to ready yourself for your half. Heck you are already running 10 milers and your pace at Maf is looking real good. Take a look at my last week's training for what not to do. BTW : I walked 2 miles today without any discomfort so I think I dodged a bullet and will chalk it up to experience. Good Luck with your Training , Greg