Low HR Training

"Expose Your Slow Twitchers" Daily Maffetone and/or Low-HR Training Reports (Read 23058 times)

    On Saturday my RHR was a bit elevated, 64 instead of the usual 57-59, and the beat-to-beat variability was a bit lower than it's normally, so I decided to take a day of.
    On Sunday I was on call, so I have to be able to jump into my car in minutes, so no running (wouldn't have had the time either... had to work from 11.30 AM sunday morning, till 1:30 AM late at night...

    But nevertheless, my RHR was back to normal this morning, so back to running...

     

    3.61 km, Average HR 120, pace 9:26min/km... 

    That's 5 consecutive runs with a pace under 10:00 min/km, three of them under 9:30 min/km.  Last spring I couldn't dream about that!

     

    Nice paces, Ann. Getting there. You're playing it smart with the RHR!

    (you lead a much more exciting life than me---many more shows about psychiatrists than playwrights---playwrights are never on call)Cool

     

    TODAY:

    10 miles

    2:08:00

    79°

     

    Included a 1 mile MAF TEST. Saw some improvement over last test.

     

    --Jimmy

    log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

     

      Got in a 6 mile MAF run yesterday.  6.36 miles, 10:07 avg pace, 137 avg HR.  I didn't mean to, but I pushed it a little quicker on mile 6 and that's what bumped me over on my avg HR.

       

      Here's my splits:

       

      Splits (GPS Interval)
       TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
      1 Manual 1 mi 10:07.05 10:07.05 10:08 135 146  
      2 Manual 1 mi 10:16.62 20:23.67 10:17 135 143  
      3 Manual 1 mi 10:12.42 30:36.09 10:13 136 145  
      4 Manual 1 mi 10:14.28 40:50.37 10:15 136 146  
      5 Manual 1 mi 10:03.01 50:53.38 10:04 138 145  
      6 Manual 1 mi 9:46.92 1:00:40.3 9:47 142 153  
      7 Manual 0.36 mi 3:38.69 1:04:18.99 10:08 139 143

       

      Pretty surprising since it was in town and that usually slows me down, and it was 83 degrees as well, but it was one of my fastest MAF runs ever.  It was overcast though which made a HUGE difference!

      Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

      Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

      labhiker


        6:30am, 10.1 miles @ 120bmp ave.  Progression type run starting slow for the first hour buidling towards 118 (max) and then heading towards MAF goal of 129 by the end of run.

         

        My legs felt a little sore this morning coming off a 7 mile pace run yesterday.  Started at sub-114 bpm for 1st mile, went towards 120bmp for 2nd, then build each mile as 140s, 150s, 160s, finishing the last 2 miles in the 170s.  I was pleased to see a pace increase with each mile split, however had hopedfor a quicker overall speed above MAF.  I guess this is why it is necessary to throw in a few pace runs ever once in while to help improve fast twitch speed.

         

        I have a question for the group - what is everyone's thought about re-fueling on long runs which approach or exceed 3 plus hours?  As of late I have only been taking in H2O and 3-4 etabs each hour for LRs <3hrs.  I'll be increasing my run time soon and am questioning of its time for a supplement again or if it might be better to keep with only h2o and see how my body responds?  (last year I was using perpetuem for these LRs)

        labhiker

          6 mile MAF run yesterday evening.  Still haven't been able to break that 10:00 pace on a 6 mile MAF run.

           

          6.08 miles, 10:04 avg pace, 140 avg HR (MAF 136).

           

          61 degrees, 25% humidity, wind S at 12 mph. Let my HR creep up on me a little. Wore a new pair of shoes, Asics Blur33. Good run.

           

          labhiker - no idea on the supplements on a 3+ hour run as I've never done that before.  My longest run ever was 15.91 miles and it took me 2 hours and 50 minutes.  All I've ever done is water.

          Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

            6:30am, 10.1 miles @ 120bmp ave.  Progression type run starting slow for the first hour buidling towards 118 (max) and then heading towards MAF goal of 129 by the end of run.

             

            My legs felt a little sore this morning coming off a 7 mile pace run yesterday.  Started at sub-114 bpm for 1st mile, went towards 120bmp for 2nd, then build each mile as 140s, 150s, 160s, finishing the last 2 miles in the 170s.  I was pleased to see a pace increase with each mile split, however had hopedfor a quicker overall speed above MAF.  I guess this is why it is necessary to throw in a few pace runs ever once in while to help improve fast twitch speed.

             

            I have a question for the group - what is everyone's thought about re-fueling on long runs which approach or exceed 3 plus hours?  As of late I have only been taking in H2O and 3-4 etabs each hour for LRs <3hrs.  I'll be increasing my run time soon and am questioning of its time for a supplement again or if it might be better to keep with only h2o and see how my body responds?  (last year I was using perpetuem for these LRs)

             

            One of the things you're trying to do in a long run is to deplete your glycogen. This is so the body responds by learning to store more glycogen than it did before, which helps with pushing back the wall in marathons. One view is that taking no calories increases the depletion, and thus increases the response by the body. Though it's probably not good policy to hit the wall during training. Here's a good article:

             

            http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2

             

            I've done long runs up to 4 hours on just water (these runs were at MAF). Higher intensity long runs where I would go as fast as 83% MHR usually came in under 3:30. I'm not sure what's it like to go 4 hours at higher intensities than MAF. I might bonk at 4 hours. There was a time when I would ingest GU on long runs. When I compare the long runs without calories to those with, I don't see any difference in how I felt during the runs. But that's me. This might even change as I get older. Can't tell, as getting older is always a new experience.

             

            Experiment. See how you do with and without. On the runs you try without, bring some calories just in case you bonk.

             

            I believe in eating during my cool down walk. Right away is good for me.

             

            --JimmyCool

            log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

             

              I haven't been running a lot over the past few weeks, but the adagio that rest is an equally important part of the training as running seems to be true.

              Work has been stressful over the last few months, and I'm paying that I guess: My RHR is often over 60 bpm (normal RHR 58), and the beat-to-beat variability is often rather low.  So I've tried to run only on those days that my RHR and B-t-B-v were normal, and despite the very low training volume, my pace keeps getting better.  'Only' 9 min/km today on MAF... (On my first MAF-test in March, my average pace was 11:45 min/km)

              Running in Belgium
              Ann

               

               

               

                Can't seem to break that 10:00 avg pace barrier at MAF for my 6 mile route at the house.

                 

                Today - 6.09 miles, 10:16 avg pace, 137 avg HR.

                 

                 50 degrees, 46% humidity, wind NNE at 11 mph. Thought I might make 10:00 pace with 2 days off before this run, but not even close. Maybe someday.

                 

                Still a big improvement over my slowest run at MAF on this route back at the end of May.

                 

                May 29th - 6.09 miles, 11:47 avg pace, 138 avg HR.  It was 65 degrees, 70% humidity and calm that day.

                Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27


                Race Less Train More

                  Can't seem to break that 10:00 avg pace barrier at MAF for my 6 mile route at the house.

                   

                  Today - 6.09 miles, 10:16 avg pace, 137 avg HR.

                   

                   50 degrees, 46% humidity, wind NNE at 11 mph. Thought I might make 10:00 pace with 2 days off before this run, but not even close. Maybe someday.

                   

                  Still a big improvement over my slowest run at MAF on this route back at the end of May.

                   

                  May 29th - 6.09 miles, 11:47 avg pace, 138 avg HR.  It was 65 degrees, 70% humidity and calm that day.

                   

                  Looks like you just need more recovery time. Long and hard run before maff test. I run easy for 5 days before a test. 11/2/2012   Long 11.0 mi 1:46:31 9:40 1733

                  Run until the trail runs out.

                  2013***1500 miles

                  50 miler

                   

                   

                  unsolicited chatter

                  http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                    I guess I've never really tried to do them as a true test, I just use them as my easy run days.

                     

                    Not sure the science behind it, but I actually tend to have the best MAF runs the day after a hard workout. 

                     

                    My best 6+ mile MAF run was on 10/24/12 - 6.34 miles, 10:08 avg pace, 137 avg HR and it was 83 degrees out.

                     

                    It was after an interval session the day before that had my HR peaking in the low 180's at the end of the last few intervals.

                     

                    I've noticed this several other times as well.  I've seen it repeat itself enough times that it seems to be more than just a coincidence.

                     

                    I would almost say my slower MAF run this morning had more to do with not running at all for 2 days than not having enough recovery.

                     

                    Completely anecdotal evidence on my part though.  As long as the overall trend is in the right direction I'm not too worried about it.

                     

                    One of these days I'll get to a 10:00 avg pace on a 6+ mile MAF run!  In the meantime I'll just have to settle for setting PR's in ever race I enter! Wink

                    Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27


                    Race Less Train More

                      I

                       

                      One of these days I'll get to a 10:00 avg pace on a 6+ mile MAF run!  In the meantime I'll just have to settle for setting PR's in ever race I enter! Wink

                       Cool

                      Run until the trail runs out.

                      2013***1500 miles

                      50 miler

                       

                       

                      unsolicited chatter

                      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                      Race Less Train More

                        5 miles AHR 114. 1 mile C/D. Peachtee City 25K /50K  Sunday. Goal is 26.2 long run.

                        Run until the trail runs out.

                        2013***1500 miles

                        50 miler

                         

                         

                        unsolicited chatter

                        http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                        Race Less Train More

                          10 miles. 41F AHR 123

                           

                          Sunday

                          40F 8 miles AHR126

                          Run until the trail runs out.

                          2013***1500 miles

                          50 miler

                           

                           

                          unsolicited chatter

                          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                          labhiker


                            Sunday, 20 deg. F (cold), 12.2miles @ 122 bpm ave.  Seemed to drop about 6 minutes from the last time I ran this route back in late June, however temp. was drastically cooler on Sunday.

                             

                            Being a down week (38miles) I ran the weekly LR as a slow progression run, slowly building towards MAF.  All felt good however I noticed a definite glycogen depletion (or dehydration) towards the end as my HR became more sensative and forced my pace to slow.  Actually walked for a short period to keep HR below MAF on a short steep uphill climb around mile 11.5.

                             

                            I'm playing around with weekly LRs alternating between long slow progression runs (at or below MAF) and fast-finish LRs.  For the fast-finish LRs I slowly building towards MAF and then progressively going above MAF for the last 5-6 miles (each mile split @ +10bmp until maxing out in mid 160s).  At the same time Im also changing my nutrition plan during the long runs using only water for the progression runs and supplementing during the fast-finish LRs.

                             

                            I have also added one day of what Im calling a progression/ pace run whereby I slow building +10bmp each mile until I top out around 160 or 170bpm to simulate MP.

                             

                            Hope to increase/ build mileage this week and finish around 45 mpw.  The mid-week long runs are starting to become more of a time burden as the distance is approaching 9miles. 

                             

                            Wishing everyone in the states an enjoyable Thanksgiving Day.

                            labhiker

                              Beautiful day for a MAF run in the upper Midwest.

                               

                              53 degrees and sunny

                              4.0 miles

                              9:41 ave pace

                              138 ave HR

                               

                              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                               

                              2014 Goals:

                               

                              Stay healthy

                              Enjoy life

                               

                                My legs are back to normal and I've resumed my training. MAF with an occasional tempo from here on in. Going to try to get my volume up to 50+miles per week.

                                 

                                2 miles yesterday, 4 the day before.

                                 

                                Here come the holidays. Hope to get trough them a little lighter than I went in. Cool

                                 

                                Happy Thanksgivin'

                                Cool

                                 

                                --Jimmy

                                log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143