Low HR Training

"Race Report & Upcoming Races" Thread (Read 7700 times)

    Awesome first marathon, C. You made a good decision to slow your pace when you saw and felt what you did. I've had a similar marathon experience where I had to adjust mid-race due to rising temperature, because if I didn't, it wasn't going to be pretty. Your 3:38 could have been a 3:50+ easily if you decided to not to slow. Nice job. Keep going! Cool

    log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

     

      Congrats on a great 1st marathon.  Ran a 3:38 while sick. WTG. That is my PR. HR is shockingly high. You ran a smart race. It must be nice to cruise at an 8:20 pace. Sub 3:20 is in the bag. Just watch the taper.

       

      thanks. Smile sickness, uh yeah, since then I got a cold... maybe that's what was in my system on race day too? :/

       

      taper: yes lesson learned there!

       

      as for cruising at an easier pace in the second half...yeah, that was a nice experience but next time I would like to be in my best shape and run it truly hard! well I guess for first marathon this is okay. just maybe this is one of the reasons why I'm not sure I actually RAN a marathon?! Big grin it's weird. almost like I did nothing Surprised

       

      (don't get me wrong, I'm happy that I've done this!)

       

       

      Awesome first marathon, C. You made a good decision to slow your pace when you saw and felt what you did. I've had a similar marathon experience where I had to adjust mid-race due to rising temperature, because if I didn't, it wasn't going to be pretty. Your 3:38 could have been a 3:50+ easily if you decided to not to slow. Nice job. Keep going! Cool

       

      thanks for your comment too Smile

       

      that decision wasn't that easy to make, but I could see something was really off, maybe temps, maybe illness, maybe both, who knows. so anyway that helped me make the decision in time. Smile 3:50+? oh uh that'd have been really crazy.

        Congrats cmon!  There's more to running than time goals, right?  (trying to convince myself of that, lol). You're "bad" marathon is someone else's dream Smile. Very smart racing...you will come back and smoke the next one.  Reading race reports like yours build my respect for the marathon distance.  I'm planning my first in the fall of 2014 and I hope I am as smart about it if something goes wrong.

        Eric

         

        PRs:  5k - (20:42) 3/9/2013 18:55 (9/28/13)

                   10k - (42:42) 3/23/2013 39:11 (10/26/13) course was short @ 6.0 mi :)

                   10 mi - (1:12:10) 4/6/2013

                   HM - (1:34:38) 4/27/2013

          Congrats cmon!  There's more to running than time goals, right?  (trying to convince myself of that, lol). You're "bad" marathon is someone else's dream Smile. Very smart racing...you will come back and smoke the next one.  Reading race reports like yours build my respect for the marathon distance.  I'm planning my first in the fall of 2014 and I hope I am as smart about it if something goes wrong.

           

          thanks Smile

           

          yes of course there's more to running than that! try trail running if you haven't yet Smile and I think long distances in general have their own beauty even if done on a flat boring course. it's just such a trance after a while. Smile

           

          glad if my race report helps you. Smile good luck in advance!

            My 2nd HM is coming up this Sunday and I've got a little bit of taper madness going on Smile

             

            Question:  Is it normal to lose some aerobic fitness after a period of anaerobic training?  I think I read that somewhere, but not sure.  I'm not talking about a major decline, but maybe 10-15 sec/mile at MAF on the same route that I've run a lot, so I notice any little change.  Pace at MAF was improving steadily up until last week.  Compared to my HM training in the spring, I've done only slightly more miles (maxed at a 27 mile week vs 25) and only slightly more anaerobic training.  Anaerobic usually consists of 2-3 miles at HM pace at the end of a long run or a 2-3 mile progression to HM pace for the back half of a 5-6 miler.  I also raced a 5K two months ago and a 10K two weeks ago, but I did that in the spring, too, as well as a 10 mile race.

             

            I actually feel great, better than in the spring.  I was kind of worn down and really in need of a taper then, but feel noticeably stronger now, like I could have trained harder.  Anyway, tell me to quit worrying about it and race Big grin

            Eric

             

            PRs:  5k - (20:42) 3/9/2013 18:55 (9/28/13)

                       10k - (42:42) 3/23/2013 39:11 (10/26/13) course was short @ 6.0 mi :)

                       10 mi - (1:12:10) 4/6/2013

                       HM - (1:34:38) 4/27/2013

              I've seen about that amount of regression during tapers for marathons. If you're feeling good, don't worry about it and race.Cool

               

              My 2nd HM is coming up this Sunday and I've got a little bit of taper madness going on Smile

               

              Question:  Is it normal to lose some aerobic fitness after a period of anaerobic training?  I think I read that somewhere, but not sure.  I'm not talking about a major decline, but maybe 10-15 sec/mile at MAF on the same route that I've run a lot, so I notice any little change.  Pace at MAF was improving steadily up until last week.  Compared to my HM training in the spring, I've done only slightly more miles (maxed at a 27 mile week vs 25) and only slightly more anaerobic training.  Anaerobic usually consists of 2-3 miles at HM pace at the end of a long run or a 2-3 mile progression to HM pace for the back half of a 5-6 miler.  I also raced a 5K two months ago and a 10K two weeks ago, but I did that in the spring, too, as well as a 10 mile race.

               

              I actually feel great, better than in the spring.  I was kind of worn down and really in need of a taper then, but feel noticeably stronger now, like I could have trained harder.  Anyway, tell me to quit worrying about it and race Big grin

              log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

               


              Race Less Train More

                x x x

                Run until the trail runs out.

                2013***1500 miles

                50 miler

                 

                 

                unsolicited chatter

                http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                  I've seen about that amount of regression during tapers for marathons. If you're feeling good, don't worry about it and race.Cool

                   

                   

                  I should have known you were going to say that, jimmy!

                  Eric

                   

                  PRs:  5k - (20:42) 3/9/2013 18:55 (9/28/13)

                             10k - (42:42) 3/23/2013 39:11 (10/26/13) course was short @ 6.0 mi :)

                             10 mi - (1:12:10) 4/6/2013

                             HM - (1:34:38) 4/27/2013

                    My 2nd HM is coming up this Sunday and I've got a little bit of taper madness going on Smile

                     

                    Question:  Is it normal to lose some aerobic fitness after a period of anaerobic training?  I think I read that somewhere, but not sure.  I'm not talking about a major decline, but maybe 10-15 sec/mile at MAF on the same route that I've run a lot, so I notice any little change.  Pace at MAF was improving steadily up until last week.  Compared to my HM training in the spring, I've done only slightly more miles (maxed at a 27 mile week vs 25) and only slightly more anaerobic training.  Anaerobic usually consists of 2-3 miles at HM pace at the end of a long run or a 2-3 mile progression to HM pace for the back half of a 5-6 miler.  I also raced a 5K two months ago and a 10K two weeks ago, but I did that in the spring, too, as well as a 10 mile race.

                     

                    I actually feel great, better than in the spring.  I was kind of worn down and really in need of a taper then, but feel noticeably stronger now, like I could have trained harder.  Anyway, tell me to quit worrying about it and race Big grin

                     

                    just a question how long are you tapering for the HM?

                     

                    10-15s/mile, in how many runs? because it can happen as an one-off thing for no real reason.

                     

                    good luck to the race! Smile

                      I've seen about that amount of regression during tapers for marathons. If you're feeling good, don't worry about it and race.Cool

                       

                       

                      hmm sorry I'm not very knowledgeable about tapers yet :/ so I'm going to ask, how is that kind of regression any good, does it reverse for race day somehow or what?

                         

                        hmm sorry I'm not very knowledgeable about tapers yet :/ so I'm going to ask, how is that kind of regression any good, does it reverse for race day somehow or what?

                         

                        A little regression on a test before marathon after a taper  is neither good or bad, and is not an immediate red flag that something is amiss. A little regression on any MAF test in any particular week or two is nothing to freak out about, especially if you've been progressing throughout training. Sometimes, it's the effect of cutting down volume so quickly. Some people see regression shifting into an aerobic phase, that turns around after a month. Sometimes it's just one of those periods where the body is doing what the body sees fit before it begins to move forward again. It's a continual regression/plateau at MAF that one should be wary of.  "Continual" I would say would be aprox. a month or two.

                        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

                         

                           

                          just a question how long are you tapering for the HM?

                           

                          10-15s/mile, in how many runs? because it can happen as an one-off thing for no real reason.

                           

                          good luck to the race! Smile

                           

                          I would say the taper started 10 days out with a 10 miler vs the previous week's 10K race and 14 miler the week before that.  Since the 10 miler last thurs which had 2 @ HM pace, I've cut normal mileage back by about 40%.  The last 5 runs since the 10K race have been off by that 10-15 secs, but I still feel really good.  Def not overtrained and what's interesting is that pace in the tempo and LT range doesn't seem to have suffered.  Also, I recently increased my MAF HR from 142 to 148 after doing jimmyb's treadmill test.  That could have something to do with it, idk.

                           

                          I'm not too concerned since I feel good and I can't do anything but race at this point.  Thanks for the well wishes Smile

                          Eric

                           

                          PRs:  5k - (20:42) 3/9/2013 18:55 (9/28/13)

                                     10k - (42:42) 3/23/2013 39:11 (10/26/13) course was short @ 6.0 mi :)

                                     10 mi - (1:12:10) 4/6/2013

                                     HM - (1:34:38) 4/27/2013

                             

                            A little regression on a test before marathon after a taper  is neither good or bad, and is not an immediate red flag that something is amiss. A little regression on any MAF test in any particular week or two is nothing to freak out about, especially if you've been progressing throughout training. Sometimes, it's the effect of cutting down volume so quickly. Some people see regression shifting into an aerobic phase, that turns around after a month. Sometimes it's just one of those periods where the body is doing what the body sees fit before it begins to move forward again. It's a continual regression/plateau at MAF that one should be wary of.  "Continual" I would say would be aprox. a month or two.

                             

                            thanks!

                             

                            wheatfeet, heh yeah I'm sure you'll be fine if your tempo pace didn't regress. good luck again Big grin

                            tortoise88


                              Dropping in for my semi-annual report.  First off, congrats to cmon2 for your awesome marathon time!  I ran one and only marathon 16 years ago.  At the 3:38 mark, I still had 8 more miles to go!

                               

                              Last time I posted in ~May, jimmyb beseeched me to heal my first ever hamstring injury rather than try to run through it.  Here’s what happened:

                              May:  ran PB 21:49 5K which is when I injured my right hamstring

                              June:  cold turkey – no running at all per doctor jimmy.

                              July:  strictly MAF running, got back to my previous fitness level which was about 9:45 MAF (average pace for a one-hour run).

                              August:  began intense 5K training program, 3 very hard workouts a week, zero easy running/long runs.  Finished August with a 21:18 5K.

                              End of September:  ran a 20:47 5K.  Did one MAF run, just for kicks:  averaged 8:45 over one hour.  What??!?

                              Last week:  20:16 5K.  Very happy to make such great progress, slightly disappointed that I didn’t hit reach-out goal of sub-20.

                              Plan going forward:  have baby (not me - my wife), start running again sometime next spring/summer.

                               

                              Notes:

                              1. In early October, my left hamstring started bothering me halfway through a workout.  It was disconcerting enough that my instincts were to stop running again.  But with my target (and final) race of the year coming up, I really didn’t want to take any more time off.  I remembered reading that taking shorter strides is a good way to take pressure off of the hamstrings, so I continued the workout with what felt like ¾ length strides, but with a faster turnover rate.  I was able to complete the workout at full effort without feeling like I was doing further damage, and after a few days of running that way, I felt no soreness at all.  The really unexpected thing was that I was able to maintain my target pace (basically very close to race pace) with less perceived effort.  Perhaps because I am tall and lanky, shorter strides are more efficient, or maybe the muscle groups being called upon were more fresh, or maybe my form is just so bad that any change is a good change.  So that was interesting.  Almost felt like I was cheating somehow, like when you find the secret shortcut moves in a video game that noone else knows about…
                              2. I previously considered my max heart rate to be 189.  Well, it’s at least 192 and it wasn’t the easiest thing I have ever done finding that out!
                              3. There’s no way I could have completed let alone progressed on this 5K training program without the solid aerobic endurance base from 2+ years of MAF training.   
                              4. I also (deliberately) lost a fair amount of weight from June through the present.  I was probably mid-180’s in the spring and was at 170 for my 20:16 race.  The bad news is that now I have set expectations in my wife for my physical appearance that will be at odds with my strong inclination to address the pizza/beer deficit I have built up over that period.  Mmmm, pizza and beer!

                               

                              I’m going to try to maintain/build leg strength doing in-home exercises (squats/lunges/stair climbs etc.) while we’re in new baby mode over the coming months, then do 3-4 or more months of exclusively MAF running starting in ~May, in preparation for another late summer/fall 5K training cycle and see if I can break 20 minutes.  Next post ought to be around 6/14!  Wink

                               

                              Cheers,

                              tortoise88

                                Dropping in for my semi-annual report.  First off, congrats to cmon2 for your awesome marathon time!  I ran one and only marathon 16 years ago.  At the 3:38 mark, I still had 8 more miles to go!

                                 

                                 

                                thanks. Smile congrats to you on the great PB's!

                                 

                                I agree with you that base building helped you a lot in having the ability to set new big PB's in speedwork phase.

                                 

                                as for managing injuries, often it's the case that you can run with them (sometimes they even heal faster running at a reduced training load than with time off) but it's really interesting how well your running form change worked. Smile

                                 

                                good luck! Smile