Low HR Training

1

Anaerobic Advice (Read 491 times)

C-R


    Sorry to ask this question in this way, but we have so much info on this forum its hard to find via search. I am getting close to my 12 weeks of base (which I will most likely extend to 16 weeks) but I need to get some idea of what comes next from others that have tried and tested. I understand the anaerobic runs should be kept to one per week. What type of HR would be considered a good training pace based on my MAF of 138? What is a good race HR? If you can point me to the proper thread I could take it form there. Thanks all.


    "He conquers who endures" - Persius
    "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

    http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

      What is your max HR? Do you have any HR/pace data from races you have run at or near 100% effort? I jumped from all MAF to midway into Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning schedule and got hurt with too much, too fast. So, be careful. You may want to decrease mileage a little when you start going faster (see Jimmy's overall load thread, i.e. running 5 miles fast takes more out of your body than 5 miles at MAF). I don't think you necessarily need to cap "faster than MAF runs" (seems to be the definition of anaerobic around here) at one per week if you are in your sharpening phase (10 weeks or so before the marathon). If you are not yet in your sharpening phase, you will probably do yourself more good to stay with aerobic basebuilding and add miles instead of adding anaerobic work. After the MAF period and after I was healthy with about 7 weeks to go before the race, I really just wanted to get my body accustomed to the faster pace I would run on race day. I did: * 100m strides with my general aerobic (non-recovery) runs. * some fartlek type pickups/intervals (5k pace) in a few of my runs * some really hilly courses without worrying if my heartrate went above MAF * long runs in-between MAF (146) and my target Marathon HR (170-175)--so I usually ended up in the 155-160 range. During this sharpening period with higher intensity running, I decreased my weekly mileage by 15-20%. If you are injury-prone like me, ease into the faster stuff!!!!!!
      C-R


        Thanks Bob. No clue as to Max HR. I started my base building prior to testing max. Based on some old run data, I would estimate it to be between 190 and 195 but I planned to test once I completed 16 weeks of aerobic base. Also, I do not have any HR data from races at 100% effort. No 5ks so far this year, but if this is a good test I can always run one after my 16 weeks. We have one here about every weekend. Nice thing about living in a larger metro area. I too am worried about injury and planned to keep this foremost in mind. I would rather run slower than not at all (learned this the hard way). I looked at Pfitzinger but deemed it too agressive for me at this time. I plan to run a marathon in Oct (Indy Oct 18) so this will be my target race so my sharpening will be in August. When you say target marathon HR, was this determined by MaxHR % or by race results? So based on standard training of Tempo runs for LT (10k pace) and repeats (1 mile x 5k pace) is there a calculated HR or experience based HR? Thanks for the tip on Jimmy's load thread. It should help me figure this out too. I'm wanting to work this slowly into my training. I'm in no hurry but I do want to improve. I have a goal of BQ in '09 for the '10 race and would like to get there the proper way. Thanks.


        "He conquers who endures" - Persius
        "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

        http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

          Thanks Bob. No clue as to Max HR. I started my base building prior to testing max. Based on some old run data, I would estimate it to be between 190 and 195 but I planned to test once I completed 16 weeks of aerobic base. Also, I do not have any HR data from races at 100% effort. No 5ks so far this year, but if this is a good test I can always run one after my 16 weeks. We have one here about every weekend. Nice thing about living in a larger metro area. I too am worried about injury and planned to keep this foremost in mind. I would rather run slower than not at all (learned this the hard way). I looked at Pfitzinger but deemed it too agressive for me at this time. I plan to run a marathon in Oct (Indy Oct 18) so this will be my target race so my sharpening will be in August. When you say target marathon HR, was this determined by MaxHR % or by race results? So based on standard training of Tempo runs for LT (10k pace) and repeats (1 mile x 5k pace) is there a calculated HR or experience based HR? Thanks for the tip on Jimmy's load thread. It should help me figure this out too. I'm wanting to work this slowly into my training. I'm in no hurry but I do want to improve. I have a goal of BQ in '09 for the '10 race and would like to get there the proper way. Thanks.
          The only ways I know to come up with a marathon HR are: 1. Hadd's writings, i.e someone with a max HR of 193 or greater should have a marathon HR in the 170-177 range (and he gives other marathon HRs for folks with lower max HRs). This works out perfectly for some, but I think my Marathon HR is higher that Hadd's predictions based on my marathon experience and because my max is around 220. 2. Run some marathons with a HR monitor 3. Run a longer race (15k, half marathon) at full effort, and plug your time/HR into the Team Oregon Pace Wizard http://www.teamoregon.com/publication/online/wizard.php. It will predict your marathon time and heartrate. 4. Have a VO2max test done. Your best marathon HR will be a few beats less than your lactate threshold. To me, knowing your marathon HR is the key to adding the correct pace/effort of sharpening runs into your schedule. I don't really know mine yet, either, but plan to do a VO2max test in a month or so.
          C-R


            Excellent site link. I will check out Hadds writing. I assume you mean the posts on LetsRun board? None of my local libraries carry Hadd books. Thanks for sharing and I would be interested in hearing of you VO2 test results and how they correlate to your max HR.


            "He conquers who endures" - Persius
            "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

            http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

              Excellent site link. I will check out Hadds writing. I assume you mean the posts on LetsRun board? None of my local libraries carry Hadd books. Thanks for sharing and I would be interested in hearing of you VO2 test results and how they correlate to your max HR.
              the max HR/marathon HR section starts on page 23, 3rd paragraph with..."1. Do an HRmax test on yourself (how-to example is in the text) and make every effort to ensure your complete and absolute confidence in the result..." http://www.tricoachjill.coach-site.com/f/hadd.pdf
                From my understanding, lactate threshold is more important than max HR when determining training zones. This article tells you how to perform a field test to estimate it. http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/220.htm It is my understanding that a 15k race is run at close to lactate threshold 1. Perform the test 2. Use the McMillan calculator to figure out a 15k time that gives you the avg pace from the test. http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm 3. Enter the 15k time in the Team Oregon calculator. 4. Enter the information form your test in the "recent run" fields in the Team Oregon calculator. (Note: use avg HR from last 20 minutes of the test) http://www.teamoregon.com/publication/online/wizard.php 5. Click "submit form." It gives you predicted race times and average heart rate for all distances. Full disclosure: I have not tried this test myself, but it makes sense. Edit to add: The article says that you should finish the test feeling like you gave it everything you had. I think a pace that could be held for about an hour(or a little more) would be better. Otherwise it would be almost like running a 5k.
                  From my understanding, lactate threshold is more important than max HR when determining training zones. This article tells you how to perform a field test to estimate it. http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/220.htm Edit to add: The article says that you should finish the test feeling like you gave it everything you had. I think a pace that could be held for about an hour(or a little more) would be better. Otherwise it would be almost like running a 5k.
                  I've seen this lactate threshold test link before, and I agree that it may not be very accurate compared to running for an hour+. I know without doing the test my "everything you had" avg HR would be 210-212, which is probably 20-30 beats higher than my true lactate threshold. I agree on the Max HR versus lactate threshold for training effort. If you don't have a clue on your lactate threshold, you can use your Max HR in Hadd's formulas to determine a marathon HR which is just under lactate threshold. It seems pretty close in most cases (just not me with a 220 max HR).