Low HR Training

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1st race after MAF training. (Read 55 times)

Runslowalksalot


    After 6 months of very little other than LHRT (140 beats-ish) here is my 1st race.   I did some very light speedwork last week to mentally prepare myself to run fast but that's about it.   I was thinking 8:00 MM pace but the heat, 92% humidity and hills (Garmin is wrong) I didn't make it.   My main goal was to see where I'm at to set a reasonable marathon pace and training zones.   All of the conversion charts point sub 4 hrs, which is what I want.      Anyways... my MAF PACR GOT DOWN TO 9:30 and even as low as a 9:15 pace, but then regressed a bit to 9:45's, perhaps due to warmer morning  temps .   I was happy to be able to average 90% of my max HR for 50 minutes.  I also found a new max HR 199 bpm without sprinting at the end (wasn't gonna happen).  199 bpm kinda high for 43 years old, but I've seen it very close to that last year.    Richmond 26.2 here I come!!!

    Time: 51:21
    Moving Time: 51:21
    Elapsed Time: 51:24
    Avg Speed: 7.4 mph
    Avg Moving Speed: 7.4 mph
    Max Speed: 10.5 mph
    Avg Pace: 8:06 min/mi
    Avg Moving Pace: 8:09 min/mi
    Best Pace: 5:42 min/mi

    Speed

    Pace

     

     

    Elevation

    Elevation Gain: 93 ft
    Elevation Loss: 93 ft
    Min Elevation: 0 ft
    Max Elevation: 44 ft

     

     

    Heart Rate

    Avg HR: 180 bpm
    Max HR: 199 bpm
    Avg HR: 93 % of Max
    Max HR: 103 % of Max
    Avg HR: 5.1 z
    Max HR: 6.0 z

     
     

    • What is Training Effect?

      Have you ever wondered what good your workout is doing? Training Effect measures the impact of exercise on your aerobic fitness. Using your heart rate, Training Effect tells you if the exercise you do is maintaining your current fitness level or improving it. With that information, you can vary your intensity to achieve your goals.

      Training Effect is for all aerobic sports, all equipment and all healthy individuals.

      Training Effect Scale

      5.0 – Overreaching
      4.0 – Highly Improving
      3.0 – Improving
      2.0 – Maintaining
      1.0 – Minor

     
     

    Zones

    % of Max

    bpm

     

     

    Laps7

    View Splits

    <form><input name="j_id304" type="hidden" value="j_id304" />

    <colgroup span="4"></colgroup> <tfoot> </tfoot>

    Split Split

    Hours:Minutes:Seconds Time

    Miles Distance

    Minutes per Mile Avg Pace

    Summary 51:21.0 6.30 8:06
    1 7:59.8 1.00 8:00
    2 8:09.6 1.00 8:10
    3 7:59.2 1.00 7:59
    4 8:25.1 1.00 8:25
    5 8:28.8 1.00 8:29
    6 8:09.0 1.00 8:09
    7 2:09.6 0.30 7:15
    </form>

    Buzzie


    Bacon Party!

      Exciting stuff! Congratulations!

      (199... sweet)

      Liz

      pace sera, sera

      runnerclay


      Consistently Slow

        maff 9:45!!

        Temp 71F -----10:27 Maff(2012)

        I did a 3:37 marathon on a flat course(50F drizzle)

        8 weeks out start doing speedwork 1-2 times a week.

        example:  1 mile WU

        3x1 mile repeats--5k pace or more(you can go <5k after a few weeks)

        You need to stay within 5 seconds each mile.

        3:00 rest between repeats.

        1mile CD.

        PS: I did 2000 miles for the year.

        plits (GPS Interval)
         TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
        1 Interval 1 mi 10:27.41 10:27.41 10:28 125 133  
        2 Interval 1 mi 10:55.23 21:22.64 10:56 125 129  
        3 Interval 1 mi 11:36.44 32:59.08 11:37 125 130  
        4 Interval 1 mi 11:46.82 44:45.90 11:47 124 127  
        5 Interval 1 mi 11:51.51 56:37.41 11:52 125 127  
        6 Interval <center>—</center> 0:02.82 56:40.23 <center>—</center> 127 127  

        Run until the trail runs out.

         SCHEDULE 2016--

         The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

        unsolicited chatter

        http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

        Runslowalksalot


          Good numbers  Clay!    I'm still a bit iffy on my marathon program.  Despite the fact that I have a poor vertical jump, my musculature says fast twitch fiber leaning body.  So should I do more speedwork or more miles given this info?   I was going to do Fink's program of 3 running days a week and 3 XT, but it doesn't have mile repeats or 800's in it.  My wife downloaded an app that works out a program based on personal times, devised my the Furman institute of sport's science  (I think that's right) that has more intense workouts.    I've always been one to train my weakness, which is distance  for running; I'm good for 8- 12 miles on any given long run day, depending on weekly workload, but that's about it.

            @Runslowalksalot

             

            very cool stuff! congrats!  interesting that your 9:30 paced 180-age MAF goes with a 50-min 10K. though I would guess you could've gone 48-49mins if the weather had been perfect. was it warm and humid or cool and humid? for the former case you could be at 48mins under good conditions Smile the hills don't seem too significant otoh. ...it's also possible that with some little tempo work, your 10K time would plummet Wink after 6 months with you having started on races you might as well try and see. so I think your decision to go this route is good.

             

            that Fink program is not for the marathon though, is it? 3 running days a week is not really that great even if you're just training for a HM. and for a marathon that program sounds like a disaster. if you'd like to train for distance, you'd need to figure out where the bottleneck is, why you can't go past 12 miles? what happens when you get to your limits? leg fatigue, something else? can you run longer than 12miles at a MAF HR? if not, at a sub MAF HR? maybe I can give you some advice but I'd like to know more first.

             

            as for whether you should do 800's or mile repeats, and especially the pace they should be done at, it depends. are you already starting the training for the marathon or not yet? any other races in the next couple of months?

             

            PS: why did you say sprinting wasn't gonna happen at the end of the 10K? tired legs?

              @runnerclay

               

              wait, you aren't suggesting 5K paced mile repeats right away? and then later faster than that??

               

              mile repeats at 5K pace is considered a very hard workout. in many cases this is absolutely not necessary.

              Runslowalksalot


                The Fink program I chose was one of several options in his book Mastering the Marathon.   I chose that one as it's best suited to my running fitness level and life demands.  !'m 5'10" and 180-185 bun want to lose more than another 5 lbs.    I was going to do a 3 day a week running program as I also like to paddle, surf and lift 2 days a week..   I have a physical, outside job that in the summer months makes it unrealistic to run after work.  Add to that the fact that my wife does triathalons,  is running the same marathon with me, also runs before work, and one of us must be home with our 4 year old, so  we trade running days in the mornings.

                As for the race, it was 75 and humid.  the first 3 miles my HR  was about 170 and went up from there.   I walked a part of the biggest hill as my HR was 190 with over 2 miles left, but picked up the pace on the last hill during the last full mile then again the last .2.    I also didn't sprint as there was no one chasing me and no one that a sprint would have caught..

                also I'd like your opinion here,   My TRX class is the shizzle!  my core has never been stronger; it also has some HIIT leg work w/ plyometrics.     The class is only offered on Saturday morning, my Long run is on Sunday.  Am I not running longer because of this?     I ran a kinda hilly 1/2 last year in 2:01 while weighing over 200 lbs.  (I would have easily broken 2 hours if I didn't get my diaphragm cramp) and felt fine at the finish.

                 

                 

                http://connect.garmin.com/activity/539745715

                BeeRunB


                  Looking good! Nice work. 

                  After 6 months of very little other than LHRT (140 beats-ish) here is my 1st race.   I did some very light speedwork last week to mentally prepare myself to run fast but that's about it.   I was thinking 8:00 MM pace but the heat, 92% humidity and hills (Garmin is wrong) I didn't make it.   My main goal was to see where I'm at to set a reasonable marathon pace and training zones.   All of the conversion charts point sub 4 hrs, which is what I want.      Anyways... my MAF PACR GOT DOWN TO 9:30 and even as low as a 9:15 pace, but then regressed a bit to 9:45's, perhaps due to warmer morning  temps .   I was happy to be able to average 90% of my max HR for 50 minutes.  I also found a new max HR 199 bpm without sprinting at the end (wasn't gonna happen).  199 bpm kinda high for 43 years old, but I've seen it very close to that last year.    Richmond 26.2 here I come!!!

                  BeeRunB


                    Good numbers  Clay!    I'm still a bit iffy on my marathon program.  Despite the fact that I have a poor vertical jump, my musculature says fast twitch fiber leaning body.  So should I do more speedwork or more miles given this info?   I was going to do Fink's program of 3 running days a week and 3 XT, but it doesn't have mile repeats or 800's in it.  My wife downloaded an app that works out a program based on personal times, devised my the Furman institute of sport's science  (I think that's right) that has more intense workouts.    I've always been one to train my weakness, which is distance  for running; I'm good for 8- 12 miles on any given long run day, depending on weekly workload, but that's about it.

                    You're down to about 9:30, and if your 9:30 relates to my 9:30,  it puts you somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3:30-3:35 marathon, give or take, depending on the weather.  Even a harsh program like Pfitzinger's has you doing speed work only once a week (if I remember correctly, it would alternate, one week tempo, one week intervals). Distances like the marathon, it's the aerobic endurance that's going to get you through fast.  Those fast twitchers you use during intervals don't really come into play, unless you're sprinting. The ones trained in a tempo run do, as they can be trained to be more like an aerobic one. So, tread carefully with adding speedwork more than once a week. Make sure your aerobic speed keeps progressing. If you hit an extended plateau, back off. Good luck!

                    runnerclay


                    Consistently Slow

                      You're down to about 9:30, and if your 9:30 relates to my 9:30,  it puts you somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3:30-3:35 marathon, give or take, depending on the weather.  Even a harsh program like Pfitzinger's has you doing speed work only once a week (if I remember correctly, it would alternate, one week tempo, one week intervals). Distances like the marathon, it's the aerobic endurance that's going to get you through fast.  Those fast twitchers you use during intervals don't really come into play, unless you're sprinting. The ones trained in a tempo run do, as they can be trained to be more like an aerobic one. So, tread carefully with adding speedwork more than once a week. Make sure your aerobic speed keeps progressing. If you hit an extended plateau, back off. Good luck!

                      +1

                      Run until the trail runs out.

                       SCHEDULE 2016--

                       The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                      unsolicited chatter

                      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                        @Runslowalksalot

                         

                        oh, well, 3 days is not going to be optimal.. but work with what you have. I would say if you only run 3 days a week and you want to run a marathon, forget about fast intervals. You could be trying long intervals at half marathon pace/HR or slightly faster than that, up to 10K pace, but that's it. My recommendation anyway. The cross training with the HIIT work does sort of do the job for fast intervals anyway. Do you want to run other races before the marathon? It's in November, right?

                         

                        Yes the HIIT before the long run can affect your ability to go long at a moderate intensity. After such a session you would be able to go long without difficulty only at a truly easy pace. (You can train to be able to go faster than that but it's not going to be easy even then.) You do sound like a fast twitch runner there... If that's true, you would want to have even more emphasis on aerobic conditioning at low HR/easy pace. Have you tried running the long run at a HR that's, say, 10 beats lower than what you usually do for these 8-12mile long LRs?

                          You're down to about 9:30, and if your 9:30 relates to my 9:30,  it puts you somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3:30-3:35 marathon, give or take, depending on the weather. 

                           

                          Clearly, his 9:30 isn't your 9:30 as he's just run a 50min 10K which could maybe be 48-49 mins under better circumstances. I totally agree with you on no added speedwork beyond tempo running/long intervals, especially with him already doing some HIIT work etc.

                           

                           

                          edit: I see it was 51mins, not 50mins  but what I said just applies even more then.

                          Runslowalksalot


                            Thanks for the help folks. I'm taking steps to improve my numbers, I haven't had any beer a week and a half; I've lost a couple of pounds but  I don't feel any faster.    I was really confident about running 8's, but I don't do hill work.  I will now.     Yeah 3 days a week isn't really ideal,   I'll see what I can do about getting 4, lll have to come up with a good strategy to coordinate with the wife.

                            One thing that worries me is that my 5 k (LHRT only) numbers predict a 3:45 and 10k numbers show closer to 4 hrs.  I will do some training races.  My only other A race is the Battleship 1/2 , but it's 2 weeks before the full.   I've got to do it, I missed my 2 hr goal last year due to a diaphragm cramp, an issue I've resolved with simply putting in the miles.

                             

                            Thanks again!

                              Thanks for the help folks. I'm taking steps to improve my numbers, I haven't had any beer a week and a half; I've lost a couple of pounds but  I don't feel any faster.    I was really confident about running 8's, but I don't do hill work.  I will now.     Yeah 3 days a week isn't really ideal,   I'll see what I can do about getting 4, lll have to come up with a good strategy to coordinate with the wife.

                              One thing that worries me is that my 5 k (LHRT only) numbers predict a 3:45 and 10k numbers show closer to 4 hrs.  I will do some training races.  My only other A race is the Battleship 1/2 , but it's 2 weeks before the full.   I've got to do it, I missed my 2 hr goal last year due to a diaphragm cramp, an issue I've resolved with simply putting in the miles.

                               

                              Thanks again!

                               

                              Keep losing those pounds but be sure to not lose strength along with them, eat protein. Hope you can sort out a 4-day running schedule Smile

                               

                              If your 5K is that much faster than your 10K then you do need to work on your endurance and that 4-day running schedule will be needed even more. What's your 5K PR btw?

                               

                              You shouldn't race that Battleship half all-out; or if you do race it all-out then don't do any more hard workouts after it before the marathon. Keep only a little bit of the higher intensity stuff, like, cut back on the volume of faster running (including your HIIT workout) by at least 50%. But do keep a bit of intensity, do *not* just fall back onto doing strict LHR in the last 2 weeks of tapering before marathon if you've been doing tempos (and HIIT) in your half marathon and marathon training. End of taper advice for now Smile Put in the training first Smile

                              Runslowalksalot


                                5 k time was 23:21,(7:30s) but that was back in March.     Funny thing,   I did a 2X2 mile tempo the day before yesterday, my legs were still feeling it this morning.  I went out for 4 or 5 easy, ended up doing 7, most of it below Maf.  Even though my 1st mile was a 10:04, I averaged 9:31s!!!!!     This cool weather is the shizzle!!!!

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