Low HR Training

1

Perceived effort... (Read 799 times)


Half Fanatic #846

    What's your  perceived level of effort,  percentage-wise, during your MAF tests?  Mine feel like about 60% each time, but I thought that figure might really be too high.  So just playing around,  I took my average MAF test pace, then added the remaining 40%, and came up pretty close to my 5K race pace  -  so a 60% effort seems to be right on (for me).   

     

    I'm pretty slow, but was wondering if 60% was common or the average - or do some of us have different perceptions of MAF test effort?  It seems like a faster runner (most of you) would have a lower perceived effort, but I don't know that.   

     

    OK, it's a slow morning, but I have wondered about this...     

    "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  

      When I first started LHR training, and during some new base phases, I found the perceived effort to be ridiculously low. 

      In the Mark Allen "base training" article that Jimmy posted at this link

       

      http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/Forum/fd8a73cd745d42c6bfada8b1943872ec

       

      Mark Allen is quoted as saying that   "Your perceived effort can be very, very low while you are developing your aerobic engine. "  This is when you are new to it or starting over again.

       

      But, once you progress, I definitely have noticed that perceived effort is now higher.  I think it is just because I got faster for the same HR.  So, I think the perceived effort depends on where you are at.

       

      I noticed your age.  In the same article "base training", Mark Allen says that you should add 5 beats if over 55 years old, and it sounds like he is saying to add another 5 beats on top of that if you are over 60.  I think I may be reading it wrong, but it surprised me to read this.

      BeeRunB


        Hi Hava,

         

         

        It always feels easy to me. Even when I was pacing at 8:30 at MAF. Then again, MAF +20 beats feels easy to me, as does MAF +35.  I've never bought into the perceived exertion or the conversational method for determining aerobic pace. Runs can feel easy in a very wide HR spread. Once I pass anaerobic threshold, there's definitely a difference in my breathing. And of course, near MHR, breathing is very labored. 

         

        I don't fully understand your % system, perhaps you could share it. What's 10%, 20%,30%, etc. Also, percent of what?

         

        I found this yesterday. It connects to Run's post above:



        The Myth Of Perceive Exertion

         

         

         

        --Jimmy


        Half Fanatic #846

           

          I don't fully understand your % system, perhaps you could share it. What's 10%, 20%,30%, etc. Also, percent of what?

           

           

           It's simply a personal analogy of how fast and/or hard I'm running compared to my maximum possible.  It's really not a system (for me) because I don't use it for training purposes.  However, I found it to be slightly interesting as an after-thought. 

           

           In the link, Mark Allen wrote "And even though perceived exertion may be in line with their pace, it certainly will not match what is going on with their heart rate..."  (Matching perceived exertion with HR is a more confusing issue to me.)

           

          Apparently, my perceived effort during that particular run was coincidentally in line with my pace, but can change a lot as I improve (or regress) - a variable rather than constant statistic. I think that's the answer to my question I was looking for - Thanks

           

          Bill 

           

            

          "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  

            Mmmm, perceived effort is very hard for me. The last marathon (in which I blew up) I ignored my heart rate monitor and ran with a pace group. I was talking to them and felt fine. Whenever I glanced at my watch, it said 185. Mentally I knew this was way to high, but I was talking to other people and I felt like I wasn't using much energy. Needless to say I blew up at mile 18.
            lowgear1


            Max McMaffelow Esq.

              Excerpt from Z Man's blog:

              Bind the Monkey

              From Chapter Four ("The Pebble") of The Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh (translated by Mobi Ho):

                  The mind is like a monkey swinging from branch to branch through a forest, says the Sutra. In order not to lose sight of the monkey by some sudden movement, we must watch the monkey constantly and even to be one with it. The Sutra says to be one with it. Mind contemplating mind is like an object and its shadow—the object cannot shake the shadow off. The two are one. Wherever the mind goes, it still lies in the harness of the mind. The Sutra sometimes uses the expression "Bind the monkey" to refer to taking hold of the mind. But the monkey image is only a means of expression. Once the mind is directly and continually aware of itself, it is no longer like a monkey. There are not two minds, one which swings from branch to branch and another which follows after to bind it with a piece of rope.

              - Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 02:26:45 (EST)

              Monkey see, monkey do?
              ..Behave. Don't make me spank!
              lg
              ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
              Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
              ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)


              go barefoot

                Excerpt from Z Man's blog:

                Bind the Monkey
                ....

                Monkey see, monkey do?
                ..Behave. Don't make me spank!
                lg

                 

                 

                I love it Big grin

                When the sun comes up, you'd better be running

                  interesting question... I never really tried to quantify my perceived level of effort by percentages. but I could try now,

                  hmm, let's say, my MAF HR is 153, but really 148 because I'm considered an untrained person (and I am one, for sure). so, at 148, I would say perceived effort is around 5%.

                  for comparison: below 130, it is 0%. 130-140 say 1%, 141-145 say 3%, 145-149 is 5%, 150-154 is 7%, 155-159 is 10%, 160-164 is 20%, 165-169 is 30%, 170-173 is 40%, 174-177 is 50%, 177-181 is 60%, 182-185 is 70%, 186-189 is 80%, 190-193 is 90%, 194-196 is 95%, 197-200 is 98%, 201-204 is 100%,
                  well this is really just a subjective guess anyway! :P

                  and maybe with training this will change. 10% is something very light for me, 60% is comfortably "hard-ish". 70% getting a bit hard but easy to maintain... and so on.

                  btw I made a difference between 140 and 145 only on grounds of faster warming up in a cold winter (though with both it takes a while to get warmer but that works out a little faster at 145).

                  my AT is around 183 (but this is a guess from AT test, which test may be repeated later), and I can sustain running with that HR for well over an hour by the way, and from 195 I'm starting to "die". and I can maintain 148 only on my better days, on bad days it's only good for (very brisk, though) powerwalking. this I'm sure will change with time.

                   What's your  perceived level of effort,  percentage-wise, during your MAF tests?  Mine feel like about 60% each time, but I thought that figure might really be too high.  So just playing around,  I took my average MAF test pace, then added the remaining 40%, and came up pretty close to my 5K race pace  -  so a 60% effort seems to be right on (for me). 

                  I'm pretty slow, but was wondering if 60% was common or the average - or do some of us have different perceptions of MAF test effort?  It seems like a faster runner (most of you) would have a lower perceived effort, but I don't know that.   

                   

                  OK, it's a slow morning, but I have wondered about this...