Low HR Training

MAF Method for Kids (Read 32 times)

Hilltopper72


Hilltopper

    So I have 3 kids in track and cross country.  Track season began with the first meet being today.  Kids go through the same process each year where they end cross country around November, December if qualified Junior Olympics, and then do nothing until the beginning of February. Each time we do this we never learn.  The aerobic base is basically trashed and they go into the new season for track like they are starting all over.  This season was different.  I had them do plyometrics for 3 months in the lead up to track.  Well it was a massive failure.  The plyo didn't make up for the loss of their aerobic base at all.  It is clear to me that the kids that crushed it today all maintained their aerobic base after cross country season.  Either that have been doing it long enough to where they didn't lose much OR they trained one way or the other and kept it.  For example my 10 year old finished last year at a 6:05 mile and ran a 6:15 today.  He is still ahead of where he was at this same time last season, but it is tough reality of not having a strong base to begin with.  At this level, they simply don't run enough hours each week to change their system so after track I wanted to try out the following and want your opinion:

     

    Mon - 1 hour at MAF of 165(this is what Dr M recommends for all kids below 16)

    Tue - 1 hour at MAF

    Wed - rest

    Thu - 1 hour at MAF

    Fri - 1 hour at MAF

    Sat - rest

    Sun - rest

     

    After a lot of research I don't believe that kids suffer any issues with running more.  I think the issues that historically have come about is that kids run to hard.  This leads to burnout, etc.  My kids complain a lot before many of the practices the track coach has.  Mostly because of the 3 practices per week, nearly all of it is some form of speed work!  I took them out for a 1 hour run at a slow pace and they said, "Dad, if this is how we ran each day, I'd love to do it!"  Anyways, I'd love feedback from any and all of you about your own youth running experiences or what you have done with your own children if anything.

    BeeRunB


      Great idea. They'll build their base, and should stay healthy. The same things apply. They should be getting faster at MAF heart rate and their body should feel good. If that's not the case, then adjustments need to be made.

      SD_BlackHills


        Great post!

         

        I was putting some thought into this as well so I'm glad you brought it up.  I also have a 10 year old who wants to run, although there is no track and field or cross country for them yet.  So my little guy hasn't run an official race yet.  Everything he has done has been easy running with me in 2 to 5 mile chunks.  Although he insists on running hard at the end.

         

        Thinking back to my cross country/track days, I never knew what my heart rate was or my pace.  Most of the running that our coaches had us do were easy pace with occasional intervals.  They would yell at us to speed up or slow down as they timed us on the intervals.  I don't recall ever running anywhere near as hard in practice as I did in actual races.

         

        I think I may do something similar to the schedule you are suggesting with my kids if they are interested.

         

        By the way, wow is your kid fast!

        Hilltopper72


        Hilltopper

          Great post!

           

          I was putting some thought into this as well so I'm glad you brought it up.  I also have a 10 year old who wants to run, although there is no track and field or cross country for them yet.  So my little guy hasn't run an official race yet.  Everything he has done has been easy running with me in 2 to 5 mile chunks.  Although he insists on running hard at the end.

           

          Thinking back to my cross country/track days, I never knew what my heart rate was or my pace.  Most of the running that our coaches had us do were easy pace with occasional intervals.  They would yell at us to speed up or slow down as they timed us on the intervals.  I don't recall ever running anywhere near as hard in practice as I did in actual races.

           

          I think I may do something similar to the schedule you are suggesting with my kids if they are interested.

           

          By the way, wow is your kid fast!

           

          Are there some local 5k's he can run in?  I think it is a wonderful sport, but the "go hard" mentality is even prevalent this young.  In fairness to the coach the longest run is only a mile so speed work is important, but since the mile is composed of 60% aerobic and 40% anaerobic, I think he is missing out on a lot of potential.

          SD_BlackHills


             

            Are there some local 5k's he can run in?  I think it is a wonderful sport, but the "go hard" mentality is even prevalent this young.  In fairness to the coach the longest run is only a mile so speed work is important, but since the mile is composed of 60% aerobic and 40% anaerobic, I think he is missing out on a lot of potential.

             

            The "go hard" mentality is gaining traction.  Just look at the popularity of CrossFit.  No pain no gain as they say!  I guess it depends on your goals and passions.

             

            Yes, there are lots of local 5K's that are starting to pop up.  He'll be more likely to want to do them when it's not so terribly cold out .

             

            The mile is a hard race.  I haven't done one in a long time but I do remember the reason that I wasn't faster in the mile when I was younger wasn't because I wasn't fast enough.  It was because I was too tired!!!  If I just wouldn't have gotten tired so easily...

            Hilltopper72


            Hilltopper

              Track meet results are in:

               

              6 year old daughter ran her first ever mile today!  She came in at a respectable 11:06 for someone who barely reach my waist.  This is the one that is going to benefit the most and earliest from Dad's research on youth running.  She'll have a year of aerobic base building under her belt before next years season.

               

              10 year old son, 6:16 in the mile, still hasn't bested his PR from last year of 6:05.  He got hurt half way through Cross Country last year so he missed two months of training there, then rather than playing flag football he skipped it and we did nothing.  On top of that he started playing some card game with his buddies during recess each day rather than running around or playing sports.  It is so clear now why he is struggling this season so far.  He lost a tremendous amount of basic speed and a lot of his aerobic base.  That is a tough lesson to learn for someone who is only 10, poor kid was crying after his time even though he blew away the field.  We know now that running is a year round sport so we'll make sure that we do it the right way moving forward.

               

              12 year old daughter PR'd in the mile at 6:23 which is good for her since she really didn't start any distance running of any kind until she was 10.  Her aerobic base is more intact since she has PE daily in middle school.  She has been consistently improving race after race and is so mature about educating herself on how to train properly to be an endurance athlete.  Running truly is a science and if you do it wrong, which I believe our track coach is, then you can end up burning these kids out and trashing their young bodies.

              SD_BlackHills


                Track meet results are in:

                 

                6 year old daughter ran her first ever mile today!  She came in at a respectable 11:06 for someone who barely reach my waist.  This is the one that is going to benefit the most and earliest from Dad's research on youth running.  She'll have a year of aerobic base building under her belt before next years season.

                 

                10 year old son, 6:16 in the mile, still hasn't bested his PR from last year of 6:05.  He got hurt half way through Cross Country last year so he missed two months of training there, then rather than playing flag football he skipped it and we did nothing.  On top of that he started playing some card game with his buddies during recess each day rather than running around or playing sports.  It is so clear now why he is struggling this season so far.  He lost a tremendous amount of basic speed and a lot of his aerobic base.  That is a tough lesson to learn for someone who is only 10, poor kid was crying after his time even though he blew away the field.  We know now that running is a year round sport so we'll make sure that we do it the right way moving forward.

                 

                12 year old daughter PR'd in the mile at 6:23 which is good for her since she really didn't start any distance running of any kind until she was 10.  Her aerobic base is more intact since she has PE daily in middle school.  She has been consistently improving race after race and is so mature about educating herself on how to train properly to be an endurance athlete.  Running truly is a science and if you do it wrong, which I believe our track coach is, then you can end up burning these kids out and trashing their young bodies.

                 

                Those are really good results!  The fact that he is so upset about not PR'ing is a good opportunity for a teaching moment as well as a great sign that he is very competitive.  Obviously we can't PR every single time out.  6:16 is not that far off from 6:05 really.  Both are very fast no matter how you look at it.  That is not a jog in the park!  Neither is 6:23.

                 

                I think it's great that your kids actually want to run the mile and cross country.  You must be doing something right as a parent.  Most kids do everything in their power to shy away from such challenges.  You should pat yourself on the back.

                Hilltopper72


                Hilltopper

                  In the big picture they are good results.  I think the kids found out that they felt more confident running as opposed to team sports or sports with a lot of coordination.  My 12 year old and 10 year old train together and they talk the entire time and have a blast.  In fact I think the biggest part they are so willing to run just about every day is that the workouts I have them do are easy.  Usually 2-3 miles from 150-165 bpm.  I also am presenting this as a lifestyle choice to be a very healthy and active family.  The analogy of "putting money in the bank" as it relates to easy runs really resonates with them.  It makes sense to them that they are in essence stockpiling dollars in their aerobic "bank" account.  They get to spend those dollars at some point in their future in any way they want, whether that be the 800, 1600, 3200, or during a cross country meet.  They aren't just willing to do this but actually very, very excited.  On top of that our local high school cross country team has a new coach with similar philosophies and just took his team to 9th in the State(California).

                   

                   

                  Those are really good results!  The fact that he is so upset about not PR'ing is a good opportunity for a teaching moment as well as a great sign that he is very competitive.  Obviously we can't PR every single time out.  6:16 is not that far off from 6:05 really.  Both are very fast no matter how you look at it.  That is not a jog in the park!  Neither is 6:23.

                   

                  I think it's great that your kids actually want to run the mile and cross country.  You must be doing something right as a parent.  Most kids do everything in their power to shy away from such challenges.  You should pat yourself on the back.

                  Hilltopper72


                  Hilltopper

                    A little update for the kiddos:

                     

                    12 year old daughter finished 4th in the conference championships and destroyed her PR by 40 seconds coming in at 13:09.  She qualified for the dual conference championships and finished 10th overall which for her was a big deal.

                     

                    10 year old son finished 4th in the conference championships and also 4th in the dual conference championships besting his 1600 coming  in at 5:54.

                     

                    Heart rate monitors are ordered, phones setup with the Spring app for cadence and they are educated on the Maf Method and all the  many benefits.  They are so excited about the upcoming cross country season that they are starting this process Monday along with my 6 year old as well.  We'll have time for about 10 weeks of heart rate training before cross country starts in August.  The difference is that nearly the entire team will be training 4 days per week which is Mon, Tue, Thu, and then long runs on  Saturdays.  My kids will be adding two easy runs at Maf  on  Wed and Fridays to continue to put money in their banks and develop their aerobic engines.  I also have the RunKeeper app that reads back current pace, avg pace, current heart rate, and avg heart rate as instant feedback from this to remain in the correct zone, but also to give them instant feedback on their improvement.  Awareness in terms of commitment and follow through is such a big deal at this age so they will have all the determination they need.  Starting weekly mileage will be 15 with an increase of 1.5 miles per week as well to be cautious.  I'll keep you updated on how they do throughout their training and cross country.

                    SD_BlackHills


                      A little update for the kiddos:

                       

                      12 year old daughter finished 4th in the conference championships and destroyed her PR by 40 seconds coming in at 13:09.  She qualified for the dual conference championships and finished 10th overall which for her was a big deal.

                       

                      10 year old son finished 4th in the conference championships and also 4th in the dual conference championships besting his 1600 coming  in at 5:54.

                       

                      Heart rate monitors are ordered, phones setup with the Spring app for cadence and they are educated on the Maf Method and all the  many benefits.  They are so excited about the upcoming cross country season that they are starting this process Monday along with my 6 year old as well.  We'll have time for about 10 weeks of heart rate training before cross country starts in August.  The difference is that nearly the entire team will be training 4 days per week which is Mon, Tue, Thu, and then long runs on  Saturdays.  My kids will be adding two easy runs at Maf  on  Wed and Fridays to continue to put money in their banks and develop their aerobic engines.  I also have the RunKeeper app that reads back current pace, avg pace, current heart rate, and avg heart rate as instant feedback from this to remain in the correct zone, but also to give them instant feedback on their improvement.  Awareness in terms of commitment and follow through is such a big deal at this age so they will have all the determination they need.  Starting weekly mileage will be 15 with an increase of 1.5 miles per week as well to be cautious.  I'll keep you updated on how they do throughout their training and cross country.

                       

                      That's awesome!  Those are really great times.  Imagine what they will be able to do in cross country after running all summer.  I see some very good times in their future.  Another thing that I think is great about this is how excited they are to do this.  Very, very cool!

                      Hilltopper72


                      Hilltopper

                        Week one in the books for the kiddos.  Only got 5 workouts in rather than 6 but they felt good on all but the Saturday workout(it was nearly 90 degrees out.)  Today we start week two and will be adding 5 mins to their runs on Monday, Wed, and Friday for the big kids to get weekly mileage closer to 16.5 miles.  Little one is going to run for 15 mins on Monday and then 10 mins each of the other days of the week.  They 7-10 miles a week is the max for a 6 year old.

                        Hilltopper72


                        Hilltopper

                          Kids are half way through week 2 and already becoming beasts.  All three reported that they felt "amazing" and then afterwards "refreshed" from yesterdays run.  They had been running around 10:15 to 10:30 last week but yesterday was all the way down to a 9:17 for the 10 and 12 year old.  Little one just runs her mile, chases birds, and has fun which is all I want for her at this stage.  The big challenge will be having the same enthusiasm running during the month of June during Jr Lifeguards.  They will be very active and do some running in the sand each day from 9-2 so keeping it fun and finding balance might be challenging on some days.

                          SD_BlackHills


                            Kids are half way through week 2 and already becoming beasts.  All three reported that they felt "amazing" and then afterwards "refreshed" from yesterdays run.  They had been running around 10:15 to 10:30 last week but yesterday was all the way down to a 9:17 for the 10 and 12 year old.  Little one just runs her mile, chases birds, and has fun which is all I want for her at this stage.  The big challenge will be having the same enthusiasm running during the month of June during Jr Lifeguards.  They will be very active and do some running in the sand each day from 9-2 so keeping it fun and finding balance might be challenging on some days.

                             

                            It's amazing how invigorating easy running can be.

                             

                            I suspect if they really love running that they will want to do it all year regardless of what's going on.  Swimming is great cross training too.  Got to love the summer!

                            Hilltopper72


                            Hilltopper

                              Kids did first Tempo run in 3 weeks to get used to lactic acid build up since they are running the Mile Sunday.  Today they will run 15 mins easy to rid their bodies of any lactic acid build up and be loose for tomorrow.

                               

                              12 year old - Her legs felt heavy and she said it was really, really hard.  It wasn't even close to race pace so she is concerned about her race on Sunday.

                               

                              10 year old - He said he felt "the best ever" during his tempo run.  He is the more talented of the two and seems to excel at faster speeds.

                               

                              Although they have been doing exclusively aerobic running for the past 3 weeks, I read somewhere that the improvements start a full 30 days after the hard anaerobic workouts stop.  After all the reading, I really think the 12 year old doesn't really have much of an aerobic base to begin with.  She did gymnastics as her only sport from age 3-9 before she even started track.  During track she started as a sprinter and made the switch the following season at age 10.  Listening to Dr M's book, 1:59, and hearing about the lifetime mileage of the Kenyan runners at very early ages, it makes a lot of sense as to why the kids that run a lot early, have a superior aerobic base.  My son played soccer, football, and pretty much all games during recess at school that involved running so it is my belief that he has more lifetime miles than my 12 year old daughter.  Moral of the story is, if you have younger kids or grand kids, get them running aerobically right out of the gate if you want them to be great runners.  There is simply no replacement for lifetime miles.  If you wait until they are 9, 10, or 11, they are gonna be playing a lot of catch up to other kids who start at a very young age.  My 6 year old has started running a mile most days and gets rewarded with her favorite Shopkins toys at the end of each run.  There is no such thing as burnout or fatigue when kids run aerobically, they can do it literally every day.  Dr M stated this in his books and this is the case in my real life experiment as well.

                              Hilltopper72


                              Hilltopper

                                Race Results - Love Run Westlake Village 1 mile

                                 

                                10 year old son - 2 overall at 6:07.  Beat every single adult but one.  Lots of hills so I think that time is incredible.  He said he felt incredible during entire race and raised his arms in excitement at the finish line.  Very happy kid.

                                 

                                12 year old daughter - 4th overall at 6:37.  Beat all but two adults.  First female overall.  She felt very good but the hills through her off a bit.  She said she felt pretty darn good as well.  Thrilled to death at her performance.

                                 

                                6 year old daughter - Ran for fun with mom.  Excited to get a metal.

                                 

                                3 weeks of nearly all aerobic training for all 3.  10 weeks more to go until cross country season starts.  They might do one more race for fun between now and then.  Feedback from kids is basically that they can't wait to run tomorrow after school and believe even more than ever in the concept of getting faster at the same heart rate and that it improves race pace.  Getting their "buy in" at first was more of the fact that I am their dad, but getting them to believe on their own of this process is immensely more important.