Low HR Training

1

Poor Man's HRM (Read 22 times)


Slow and Steady

    Hi all,

     

    I haven't been here in a while, until just recently. I moved and was busy, stopped running for a bit. But now I'm back and running and preparing for races again - feels good.

     

    My post is mainly a question for you experienced MAF runners. In my limited experience, it seemed like my MAF pace was always at or below "breathing through the nose" pace. The need to start breathing through my mouth usually coincided with my HR monitor alerting me that I was exceeding my target HR.

     

    Well my HR monitor (a cheap Timex that I got used off of eBay) has frustrated me with inconsistencies one too many times, and I've given up on it. So for now, I've been relying on my "Nose Breathing HRM" to keep me at MAF-ish pace.

     

    Has this been your experience? Is it a good "poor man's" substitute for a real HRM?

    Eric S.

    Trail Mix ||| dailymile ||| RA log

    Goals: 50km, 50-miler, 100km, 100-miler

    BeeRunB


      Hi Eric,

       

      Welcome back, good to see you posting again.

       

      When I do my infamous treadmill test, as I gradually increase effort, I notice a feeling of needing a little more air around MAF, and a big need around anaerobic threshold. My uneducated guess is that it has something to do with the engagement of different types of anaerobic fibers.

       

      Perhaps if I tried the nose test I'd find a need to open another air channel (mouth) around MAF as well. I'm sure if your watch doesn't work well, you can use the method. You'd be looking to get faster while not needing to breath through your mouth.

       

      As for HR, I wondered aloud in a post about whether or not the anaerobic system gets engaged if I start out at a pace (e.g.) that keeps my HR at MAF -10, then hold that pace while the HR rises. If HR rises above MAF will the anaerobic system be engaged? Using the nose method, if you ran the same pace on an even surface, would you eventually need to breath through your mouth? And would this coincide with your HR having eventually exceeded MAF, even though pace hasn't changed?

       

      It might be time for nasal breathing studies, Eric. 


      Slow and Steady

        Well a proper study would probably be to run with a HRM but not look at it, instead gauging everything by the effort of breathing. And maybe doing that for a long period of time, never looking at the data yourself (because your knowledge of the data might affect future runs and pace). I'm sure it'd be an interesting study! Smile

         

        As for HR, I wondered aloud in a post about whether or not the anaerobic system gets engaged if I start out at a pace (e.g.) that keeps my HR at MAF -10, then hold that pace while the HR rises. If HR rises above MAF will the anaerobic system be engaged? Using the nose method, if you ran the same pace on an even surface, would you eventually need to breath through your mouth? And would this coincide with your HR having eventually exceeded MAF, even though pace hasn't changed?

         

        It might be time for nasal breathing studies, Eric. 

        Eric S.

        Trail Mix ||| dailymile ||| RA log

        Goals: 50km, 50-miler, 100km, 100-miler

        BeeRunB


          Hi Eric,

           

          I did an experiment today with nasal breathing. Started well below formula calculated MAF of 125 bpm. I was able to breath through my nose all the way up to 143 bpm, at which time I opened the mouth and grabbed more air.

           

          I then tested with mouth breathing and noticed a small change in breath around 132-133, but a bigger need for air at 143 bpm.

           

          I then remembered that Dr. Phil used to watch for a change in gate as someone went through their physical testing for MAF. So, I took a video of myself running. I started out at a low HR well below MAF again. My gate stayed the same until I hit 143-145 bpm, at which time I began to lean forward a bit. I could feel it as well as see a few degrees forward in the upper body.

           

          A chart of my RQ test that shows a plateau in Fat/sugar ratio that I posted in this thread:

           

           

          I was thinking in that thread that real MAF was in the 142 range, which is about 70% MHR. I now think my MAF hasn't changed much in the 5-6 years since that RQ test. Quite possibly, it might never change.

           

          That's what I experimented with today. As for the nasal breathing working for everyone, I'm not sure. Nasal passage size might come into play. Deviated septum might screw it all up.