Marathon Race Training

Sub-3:30 in 2013 thread...where upgrades never dare (Read 511 times)


    indianajagfan:  Welcome! I'm looking forward to hear how Pfitz training goes.  I too am surrounded by hills and I luckily enjoy them.  


    Flinders and Ric-G: Nice work on the 12 milers.  


    Happy running to everyone!


    Me:  Had a great 13+ today @ 7:54 (83% HRMax).  I was planning to stick around 81% HR Max today but had some hills to plow through.  Mile 10.5 through 13 is a 300+ gain and today was the fastest I ever hit it and felt strong all the way through.   This was my first 10+ miler since the FM in November.  

    PRs: 10K - 45:25 (7/21/12) | 26.2 - 3:27:24 (11/24/12)

    2013 Goals: 5K sub 20 | 10K sub 41 | 13.1 sub 1:30 |  26.2 sub 3:10


      Time to jump in.


      Bruce - Good work with the 11m. I guess you did the strides with the wind at your back? Lol!


      Runbo - You did well with that 7m and keeping your HR in that range? Sounds like things are starting to come together.  BTW I guess you´re running now in full length running tights? Lol! I guess you windproof ones? They´re a god send for temps lower than 5C


      Jedi - A get together and a 10K. I guess you run first then the beers after? Lol! I meant to ask, I saw on your blog a pic of the marathon and there were no cones on the road. Was it not a bit dangerous esp if you wanted to overtake someone?


      CPett - Hope you got in the 40 miles.


      Runningmama - 15m at 8.32 is a great workout. I can´t rem is that your normal MLR/LR pace? Mine is closer to 9.00. Oh, BTW have you stopped using daily mile?


      Indiana - I´m looking to BQ next spring too (need sub 3.15)


      ThreeMartini - I found those MLR were the key to boosting fitness when I first did Pfitz 12/55. Also they just don´t leave you as exhausted like a LR, so it´s not normally a problem to do a 5m recovery the day after. Good to hear the 12m went well.


      Ric - I guess you planned to run without Garmin/watch. I do that too in the week after a marathon when I just want to go for an easy recovery run.


      JK - I said Hi on RWOL. Do you still go there?


      Me - I´m another that has come over from RWOL. I ran Valencia at the end of Nov (went round in 3.20) I´m running Paris at the start of April, but I´m still building up my miles back up. My last few weeks are 15m (week after marathon) 44, 19, and I finished last week with 55 miles. I´ve picked up a dull ache in my right arch. I thought it might be the dreaded PF but the symptons don´t fit - no shooting heel pain first thing in the morning and the pain doesn´t go away when immediately after I´ve warmed up. I haven´t changed my route, or started any speedwork (all runs are about 8.45-9.00 m/mile pace) On paper it does look like I´ve ramped up the miles quite a bit, but I was doing Pfitz 18/70 and I never picked up any injuries so it´s not as if I´m setting a new weekly mileage record. Only thing I can think of is that it might be a sign that I need new shoes. Any ideas?

      Marathon 3:18 4/7/13. HM 1:30:16 2/4/17 10K 40:31 5/14/17. 

        cpett - What kind of race was it (distance). Had you done any training at your race pace? I think you'll find before long that you pretty much know what your heart's doing. I usually monitor my heart now and then, but basically I just watch the pace. Well, actually, if it's a hot day, then I do pay attention more. But, say, on a 10k, if I'm at 6km and my HR is dangerously high, then I won't push it much. Mostly I use it after a race, or after training, to monitor fitness. Did you hit 40?


        indianJag - Welcome! 3:46 is a great time. I'm sure you can build on it.


        Flinders - that's a respectable 12 miles. welceom back.


        cpett - it's nice getting back up to higher mileage runs, isn't it?


        caferey! Welcome, stranger. I guess my running pants are windproof. I began wearing them for Xcoutry skiing. I see you've gotten back into things a whole lot faster than me. I'm just a bit shy of 40 for the week.


        I went to the gym today with the idea of doing just core and some weights. But it was the first time in a couple years and I didn't want to overdo it. So I worked out for about 35 minutes, and then I ran for almost an hour. 10k in 54 minutes. Gives me about 38 miles for the week. That's a streak of five days. Haven't done that since July.

        Rusk Runner

          Unbelievable 61 deg today.  Still wet from a full day and night of rain.  Hit the road for a 13 mile GMP run today.  3 miles warm-up/1 mile cool-down @ 8:45 avg pace.  GMP for 9 miles @ 8:07 avg.  Maintained pace through all hills.  Just a shade faster than I wanted to run but, it felt good throughout.


          Finished with 40 miles and change this week.  Feeling good about training so far, but I only have two weeks in the bank so far.

          PRs...5K - 20:36, 4mile - 26:15, 13.1 - 1:32, 26.2 - 3:42

          Just Run!!!


            runbo:  The race was a FM.  I had planned to run the race within 154 - 170 bpm (82%-91%) but instead it ended up being 165-185 bpm (88-100%).  It could very well be that my Max HR was/is not accurate (it was based on an all out 5K training run).  I have since adjusted my max HR to 190.  My last training routine I averaged around an 8:34 pace with a good amount of my longer runs doing some if not half at MP.  I think a lot it had to do with first time race jitters and not having my HR Max calculated correctly.  Once I have a bit more races under my belt I might make more sense out of it.  I now run mostly by feel but I always keep an eye on HR just for curiosity or if I want to make sure to run in a certain zone.


            Caferey:  Hope that foot heals up, whatever it might be.  I had a foot scare couple months ago.  I had to cut a run short and take a few days off.  Not quite sure what it was but it ended up just going away.  I thought it could have been PF but like you the symptoms didn't fit.  How many miles do you have on your shoes?  Take it easy.


            Indiana: Nice work on the hills and training!


            Yes, I was able to hit 40 this week.  I had thought I wasn't going to make it but when I got back after my run yesterday and uploaded my run, the week totaled up to 40.1.  


            These longer runs do feel great!

            PRs: 10K - 45:25 (7/21/12) | 26.2 - 3:27:24 (11/24/12)

            2013 Goals: 5K sub 20 | 10K sub 41 | 13.1 sub 1:30 |  26.2 sub 3:10

              indianajagfan: Welcome! I ran the IMM in November this year and Indy was a nice location to run. I may do the 500 next spring but that depends on if I decide to add in a May FM or not.  Nice job on the GMP through the hills!


              cpett: Great sounding 13+ today and isn't it great when you're able to just crank through the hills feeling strong all the way.


              Caferey: Yep, after fighting through the wind I did do the first 7 strides with the wind at my back. I did finish up with 3 into the wind ... but that was only because I ran out of street and was forced to backtrack to where I parked.


              I ran 5 as recovery yesterday and got in 13+ this afternoon and picked up a group of guys for the last 7mi or so. I had planned to just make this about 2 hrs at an easy pace over a relatively flat course but we ended up running hilly paths through the golf course and then out into the country through more hills. However, I felt really good and pressed the pace a bit. Tomorrow is a SRD and I'll probably cut back just a bit next week before kicking off Pfitz 18/70 the week of Christmas.

              Train smart ... race smarter.



                jedi - regarding hansons, i do like it and have felt relatively strong at the end of my races. most recently in santa clarita on a warm day (84 degrees at the finish) i ran just about even splits of 1:47 and 1:48. i passed a good number of people from mile 15 onward. i do know that i did not run any long run over 18 miles. and ran the first two long runs at 16. i wonder if my result was more due to total mileage. i am not a high mileage runner a la runmom ;-) but do know enough to say that maybe just more miles helped. would i have had the same or better result with pfitz...maybe. but i definitely did not feel that the lack of 20 milers made me feel weaker for the race. i like the layout of the hanson plan. i look forward to each run (maybe the speedwork a little less so). i also liked running 6 days a week and didn't think that would happen. i will likely follow hanson for 14 weeks or so leading up to my spring marathon. so i will continue to just put in some miles thru this month.



                Ric - I hear lot of people have success with hanson and think just the thing i need to do for my next one. Not sure if I'll follow book or custom plan from their site. Solid 12 mile for you sir.


                cpett - sounds like my kind of 13 miler. I have a hill here that is easily a +200 gain.


                Cafe - about time you got here sir!Smile Not sure what pic you're talking about. The ones on the bridge are at end to finish and a pedestrian bridge. They had some coned off and some streets closed. It was  a safe course and never really feared for my safety. Not sure what your foot issue is. Might be shoes. How many miles do you ahve on them? Do you run in more than one pair? they say to rotae a few at a time and not run in same ones all the time. Could be your body still healing from marathon. I've had people tell me it takes 6 weeks to fully recover.


                runbo - nice work at gym and 10k.


                indiana - nice GMP run


                bruce - seems lot of us ran 13 this weekend.Smile


                me - here was my week:




                M - SRD/spin/strength/core

                T - 8.25 @ 8:54 w/5xstrides

                W - 10.4 @ 8:43 w/8x30sec fartleks

                T - 7.2 @ 9:04

                F - 6.35 @ 7:59

                S - 13.1 @ 8:28 last 3m @ 8:18, 7:47, 7:39 on Cburg HM course

                S - 8.42 @ 8:32  progression w/5x strides


                My birthday yesterday so had to incorporate my age in with 8.42. I was not going to run 42 miles.Smile Overall solid week and starting to get consistent with mileage again post-marathon. My mileage will be lower than what i run when in marathon training.probably top out at 55 maybe 60. Focus is on more quality running training for 2 HMs and getting faster.

                PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:40:40 (2014)


                Up Next:



                  cpett - nice going on the 13 and feeling great about it too.


                  runbo - gym plus 10k sounds like a good workout


                  bruce - sounds like you ran a strong 13 too


                  cafe - welcome, doesn't seem like PF, but may be a good excuse to get new shoes.


                  indiana - nice job on the hills, i can't avoid them where i'm at and they usually feel good


                  jedi - happy belated b-day, instead of 42 miles, you could do 42k or a marathon  ;-)



                  i've continued to maintain and ran 7 yesterday and 5 this morning.

                  marathon pr - 3:16


                  Moving in ;-)

                    Hi guys and girls


                    Thanks for your comments about the pics, got behind on posting and now there are too many shoutouts to do X)

                    Looks like most people is already doing serious miles for next season, for me it's gonna be the oposite for a while, just run for the fun.

                    Caferey i will keep posting here and not on RW, it's too much trouble and most people are here.


                    On sunday went for some slow 12 miles with some friends and today did 1.25 miles on the pool, i think im gonna start swimming every week.


                    My next objectives regarding running for the next times are gonna be:


                    -> Keep running to not start training from zero again...

                    -> Do the maximum possible runs off the road

                    -> Do a long run on trails with friends every weekend

                    -> Run a 10km race without training for it at the end of the month to break my PR

                    -> On January when i'm gonna have more free time beat my running streak of 6 days

                    -> Run only with the stopwatch

                      -Happy bday Jedi. 42 is not the end of the world. I should know.

                      JK - sounds like some good goals there. I must say I highly recommend the not starting from zero plan. PRing without training in a 10k seems like the opposite though. Is yours slower than what you ran in the FM?


                      I only managed to get in a couple miles yesterday, running to the P&R to pick up my car in the morning following an evening bout of Pub with some old soccer friends. Better stuff this morning with about 8.5 miles. Again I tried to keep pace matching HR 135, but it didn't feel easy at all until the end. I'm thinking I need to start throwing in some recovery miles where I run according to a set pace (i.e. slow). 


                      I have family coming and visiting beginning tomorrow and am unsure if I'll be able to get any real running in. We head to the mountains for a looooong weekend (including Xmas) and there's too much snow there for actual running. But I am planning to get some Xcountry skiing in, when I'm not teaching three year olds to ski. Am expecting more eating and drinking than is generally recommended...and I'm planning to enjoy it.

                      Rusk Runner

                        Lots of good running going on with everybody here.  I see alot of early risers here too.  I generally get two runs a week done prior to 0430 AM.


                        A little too fast on the tempo portion of my run tonight but, HR was just at the fast end of in range so no big deal.  I will slow the pace down by about 9 seconds or so next time.  2 miles wu @ 8:59 pace, 4 miles tempo @ 7:21 pace, 2 miles cd @ 9:12 pace.


                        So much tempting holiday food around.  Hard to resist sometimes, and sometimes I just have to say WTH and indulge a bit.

                        PRs...5K - 20:36, 4mile - 26:15, 13.1 - 1:32, 26.2 - 3:42

                        Just Run!!!


                        Three Martini Lunch

                          Evening all.


                          I took a rest day yesterday; I realized I had run 7 days in a row, so took the time off.


                          I doubled today: 3.7 @ 8:52 at lunch, and 6.7 @ 9:27 after work.  This was the first double I have done in a couple of months, and I reversed my usual pattern (longer in the am, then short later in the day).  The evening run felt a lot harder than the pace indicates.

                          M: 3:31:56

                          HM: 1:37:33

                            flinders - makes sense to take a day off. i am never hugely impressed by multi week streaks tho maybe because i cant do them indian- you finish by 4:30? thats hard core i was out the door nt 4:45 this morning and came back 14km later. nice and easy around 8:45/mile. felt really good. running with my camelbak i have found is the key to a good run

                              runbo - xcountry skiing sounds great...enjoy the xtra food and drink too...nice 14k


                              indiana - wow, finishing by 4:30am...that was a nice run too


                              flinders - re your comment on the evening run being difficult, I wonder why that happens too. Nice double.




                              8 this morning @8:30.

                              marathon pr - 3:16


                              Three Martini Lunch

                                Ric:  I think there are three reasons why the later run was more difficult.  First, this was the first double I had done in several months (since Sept., to be exact), so I was out of practice.  Second, I only had about 4.5 hours between the two; my first run was over at 1, and I started the second at 5:30, so I probably wasn't fully recovered.  Third, the second run was significantly longer than the first.  I felt fine for the first 2.5 miles, and then cratered.  I'm assuming that if I had a HRM, it would have shown a big spike in heart rate.  When I was doing doubles over the summer, I did the longer run in the morning and the shorter run at lunch or in the evening, so by the time I was getting tired the run was over, and thus the second run didn't feel as difficult.


                                URD for me; life conspired to get in the way of my running.  Tomorrow is another day.

                                M: 3:31:56

                                HM: 1:37:33