I've been trying to balance getting my mileage up with minor injuries that seem to be threatening to become major. So, I didn't get as many miles in as I would have liked, but hopefully I got in enough to get a big PR in my third full marathon.
1) What are your recent shorter-distance race times?
10/1/17 Half Marathon 1:39:04. A new PR for me.
I don’t have any other recent races. I’ll list a few older ones but… probably not relevant. 5/21/17 5k at the end of a sprint triathlon: 23:00
4/9/17 HM 1:42:58
2) What's your average mileage per week? Past 10 weeks: 47
Past 20 weeks: 42
9 runs of 18-20 miles in the last 14 weeks. 5 in the last 10 weeks.
2.1) What training program (if any) are you using?
No program. Almost all easy miles. I just throw in some fartlek stuff or a few tempo miles whenever I’m feeling it.
Until 7 weeks ago I ran 5 days/week and did significant cross training two days/week – swimming and biking. Since then I dropped most of the cross training and added a 6th ,low mileage, run day. Log:
Wk Ends
Mon
Tue
Wed
Thr
Fri
Sat
Sunday
Total
16-Jul
6.2
6.7
5.3
0
9
Cross
16.1
43.3
23-Jul
6.5
7.1
5.2
9.1
17.3
45.2
30-Jul
6.1
6.4
5.1
8.5
13.1
39.2
6-Aug
7
9.4
18.1
46.7
13-Aug
6
9.6
19
47.7
20-Aug
5
6.6
8.2
37.9
27-Aug
6.8
10.3
20.1
50.7
3-Sep
10.1
3.1
20.3
53.7
10-Sep
5.4
7.2
7.8
13.2
42.7
17-Sep
7.7
7.3
10.2
20.5
55.9
24-Sep
8
9.3
4.5
14
41.1
1-Oct
8.8
32.4
8-Oct
4.2
15.2
39.7
15-Oct
5.5
20.7
57.5
3) When is your race, and which one is it?
Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, 11/4. Supposed to be a flat and fast course with typically cool weather.
4) How long have you been running?
About 8 years as a 30+ miles a week runner. Before that, another 30+ years as a 10 mile/week runner.
4.1) How many marathons have you run, and what were your times? Only 2 completed.
2011 Portland – 4:40. Ran a 1:49 HM before this.
2012 Seattle RnR – 4:21. Ran a HM around 1:44 prior to this.
I was very undertrained for the first one, was sick and injured, still started way too fast. Wheels came off in the 16th mile and it was a death march to the finish. Second one I thought I was pretty well trained. The first 16 miles felt good and I stayed right on pace for a 3:50 finish. But then I got sharp stabbing pains in my knee. At the time I thought I had really damaged something Another death limp to the finish.
5) What is your age and gender? 58 year old man.
6) What pace do you run your long runs? Around 9:30/mile.
7) What is your goal?
Sub 4:00:00. Based on my half time I SHOULD be able to do a lot better than that but given my history of blow ups, I want to be very conservative. If I get told that I really should be capable of much faster than I might drop my goal some, but I want to stick with a pace I can actually sustain for the whole 26.2.
Thinking of starting with the 3:55 pace group but definitely interested in everyone's advice. I am open to starting either slower or, maybe, a little bit faster.
Pace Prophet
I see no reason why you can't go sub-4. Then again, I would have said that about your previous race, so I'm definitely in favor of being conservative so as to get a solid finish under your belt, rather than trying to run at a pace closer to your potential fitness as signaled by your half. If there's a 3:55 pace group, that seems like a good bet. Run with them until mile 18, which is apparently 2 miles past your death point, then try slowly speeding up a very little - that will be from 9 minute pace to perhaps 8:50-8:55 pace. If you're still feeling good at 23, go as fast as you like (which is probably not going to be much faster).
Make sure you take a decent taper/sharpening. You don't say how much you ran last week, but I'd run 35-40 this week, and incorporate some MP (9 minute pace). Next week cut it really down, maybe 15-18 miles before the race, and again, get some of it in at MP. Good luck!
That seems like great advice.
Thanks Ilana!
+1 on sub 4hr. If everything goes well, good pacing, cool weather and the course is pr friendly I could see sub 3.55 or closer to 3.50
Marathon 3:18 4/7/13. HM 1:30:16 2/4/17 10K 40:31 5/14/17.
Taper madness and many doubts are creeping in...
Is 3:55 actually a very conservative goal for me? Thinking maybe I should just go with the 4:00 group and be happy to come in a few steps ahead of them.
The many aches and pains that I got during my buildup did not, as I had hoped, go away during my taper. I'm particularly worried about my right IT band.
Argh!!!
I think you're suffering from taperitis - I've always found that aches and pains multiply during my taper for no good reason!
Is there really both a 3:55 group and a 4 group? I do think that 3:55 is quite conservative - I would ordinarily suggest 3:45 for your stats, except that, as I said before, you haven't had a solid race yet. But there is nothing wrong with going out with the 4 hour group and trying to come in just a tad ahead! If you have doubts, going more conservative isn't a problem!
Good luck, Dennis!
Thanks Ilana and Caferey for the advice. It worked!
Short version: finished in 3:51:39 while still feeling strong to the end. A huge, 30 minute, PR for me!
I did start with the 3:55 pacer. Tried to anyway. I was close to him in the starting corral but before we even got to the start line he had moved way up and I couldn't get to him for a few miles. It was really crowded out there. First three miles were extremely uneven: 9:34, 8:40, 8:09. Then I finally caught up to the pace group and we settled in to a pace that was mostly in the 8:50's. I stuck with the group thru 18 miles. At that point I was thinking of Ilana's advice and moved to get just slightly ahead of the group. Ran a couple of 8:42 miles. 3 miles out I tried to go with coach Ilana's advice again - I felt like I was picking it up even more but my splits don't show that. They do show that two miles out, for mile 25, I picked it up more and ran an 8:34. Mile 26 and my legs had enough to really kick it up - I ran that in 8:03. The last 0.38, per my Garmin, was an all out sprint (for me) at a 7:14 pace. It was a pretty awesome feeling to be able to still push hard after already running 25 miles!
The strong finish and the negative split of 1 minute and 23 seconds say that I probably could have done a little more aggressive pacing and finished with a little lower time but I really don't care. I am extremely happy to have run strong, passed scores of people in the final miles, and ENJOYED myself immensely!
Thanks again!
--------------
Official stats:
overall place:1629 out of 4677 (based on net time)
division:M 55-59
division place:74 out of 204
gender place:1152 out of 2635
10k split:55:27 (pace: 8:57 , rank: 2125
13.1mi split:1:56:31 (pace: 8:54 , rank: 2114
30k split:2:46:11 (pace: 8:55 , rank: 1967
last half:1:55:08 (pace: 8:48 , rank: 1266
net time:3:51:39
pace:8:51
Oh, gosh, I'm so happy for you, Dennis! (I miss the dancing banana from RWOL, I would totally give you one!)
A 1:23 negative split is not really that big. I think it was a smart idea to be conservative and to have a good race. Isn't it fabulous to be passing people at the end? Next time, you can push for your limits, but I think you did absolutely the best thing this race, and now you have a shiny and huge PR! Congratulations!
I lost my rama
3/17 - NYC Half
4/28 - Big Sur Marathon DNS
6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour
8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours
Fantastic well done! You must have got a real buzz in the last mile or two overtaking runners, it’s a great feeling. You really unleashed your inner Kenyan in the last mile, that was about 3.30 pace!
Rest up and take it easy.