1) What are your recent shorter-distance race times?
Ran 9 halfs this year
Jan - 1:30
March - 1:32
April - 1:30
May - 1:30 and 1:34 (trail)
June - 1:33
July - 1:36 (In Indian summer)
Sept - 1:32, 1:322) What's your average mileage per week?
I have been averaging 54-55 miles per week for the entire year 2017. In the last 12 weeks I have run 640 miles at an average of 53 miles per week2.1) What training program (if any) are you using?
I am following a simple training progam
Monday - Easy run 6-8 miles at 8:00 min per mile
Tuesday - Hill repeats
Wednesday - 5 on the treadmill at 8:00 min per mile
Thursday - Tempo run 1/2 of the LSD of that week
Friday - Rest
Saturday - LSD (16-22) miles
Sunday - 10 miles on the trail
In the first 12 weeks I have run 2 20 milers, 1 18 miler and rest in the 16 range
I have 2 more 20 milers and 1 18 miler left in my plan
3) When is your race, and which one is it?
My Marathon is on Nov 11, Richmond4) How long have you been running?
I have been running since 2012.4.1) How many marathons have you run, and what were your times?
I have run 2 marathons till now 2014 and 2014 with times 4:02 and 4:095) What is your age and gender?
Age 45 Male6) What pace do you run your long runs?
Long runs are in the 8:15 to 8:30 pace range7) What is your goal?
Goal is BQ (which is 3:25). I want to do a 3:15
I'm gonna be blunt. Your peak weekly mileage is only in the 50s and your overall average is probably in the 40s. You're running pretty much everything too fast. You're half marathon times don't show any improvement.
All things considered, you might run a 3:25 if everything goes perfect but I'm thinking 3:30-3:35 is more likely (assuming you don't completely crash).
be curious; not judgmental
Pace Prophet
I am slightly but not much more optimistic than Matt. I think 3:25 is a reasonable goal, though it's possible you will fall short. I think attempting a 3:15 will give you a tiny PR.
I'm gonna be blunt. Your peak weekly mileage is only in the 50s and your overall average is probably in the 40s. You're running pretty much everything too fast. You're half marathon times don't show any improvement. All things considered, you might run a 3:25 if everything goes perfect but I'm thinking 3:30-3:35 is more likely (assuming you don't completely crash).
I am confused when you say the weekly peek mileage is 50s. I have been doing 53-55 miles every week for the last 12 weeks of training.
some additional clarifications. I have logged close to 2200 miles for the year including the 12 weeks of training so far. all my half marathons are part of the 50-60 week mileage with no tapering. Not sure if this has contributed to the lack of improvement in them.
My ultimate goal is to do a BQ -5 atleast which is 3:20 or lower, what can i do between now and the race that can help me achieve this.?
I am going to plan for 3 more 20 milers, 2 -22s and 1 -20 to get used to the distance.
I lost my rama
I'm no expert by any means, but I come from the school of thought of slowing down your training runs, as Mr Matt suggests. I think you'd get the most benefit from this vs piling more into the long runs, and I'd venture to bet that if you keep your mileage the same but simply slow your every day paces by 30-60 seconds, you'd meet your BQ target. FWIW - My best marathon (3:26) was off 52 mpw but the slowest average training pace (9:15). And I will never be as fast as you are in the Half - not even close. YMMV and good luck!
3/17 - NYC Half
4/28 - Big Sur Marathon DNS
6/29 - Forbidden Forest 30 Hour
8/29 - A Race for the Ages - will be given 47 hours
The reason I picked 8:20-8:30 as I read that my long runs should be a min slower than your marathon pace. Sure will slow down my easy runs by 30-60 seconds now on
Sure will slow down my easy runs by 30-60 seconds now on.
I don't think it will make any difference for Richmond since it's right around the corner. In fact, I'd strongly advise waiting until after Richmond before modifying your training paces, since you're already used to the pace right now. Once you start slowing down it may feel strange, or difficult, or even somewhat painful. It will take some time for your body (and your mind... especially your mind) to get used to it. But you will start to slowly develop the adaptations needed to run a fast marathon... you have a lot of potential!
I still have six weeks for Richmond. 1/3 rd of my training left
Again, this is just my 2 cents, and others may disagree and say it's not even worth 2 cents. I don't see anything wrong with your LR pace. But from your weekly routine below, you're running your "easy" runs too fast at 8 min/mi. Just because you can complete a 6-8 miler at 8 pace no problem doesn't make it an easy run. Based on a 1:32 half, Daniels has your easy runs at 8:18 - 8:48 pace. In warm summer weather it should be even slower. You're also running two harder runs during the week. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd question the 10 miles on trails and the effort level of that run. Personally, I'd pick any 2 of the 3 for the week and add another easy run to the mix. I also found that longer mid-week runs of 10+ miles is better than stacking more onto the weekend long run - your schedule permitting. Again, from my own experience, my PR marathon was on just 3 16 mile LR's but I had two 10+ milers mid-week during the peak training weeks - one easy pace and one at goal marathon pace.
I don't know if any changes 6 weeks out will make much of a difference, so let's see if anyone else weighs in on that.
2.1) What training program (if any) are you using? I am following a simple training progam Monday - Easy run 6-8 miles at 8:00 min per mile Tuesday - Hill repeats Wednesday - 5 on the treadmill at 8:00 min per mile Thursday - Tempo run 1/2 of the LSD of that week Friday - Rest Saturday - LSD (16-22) miles Sunday - 10 miles on the trail In the first 12 weeks I have run 2 20 milers, 1 18 miler and rest in the 16 range I have 2 more 20 milers and 1 18 miler left in my plan
2.1) What training program (if any) are you using?
Again, this is just my 2 cents, and others may disagree and say it's not even worth 2 cents. I don't see anything wrong with your LR pace. But from your weekly routine below, you're running your "easy" runs too fast at 8 min/mi. Just because you can complete a 6-8 miler at 8 pace no problem doesn't make it an easy run. Based on a 1:32 half, Daniels has your easy runs at 8:18 - 8:48 pace. In warm summer weather it should be even slower. You're also running two harder runs during the week. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd question the 10 miles on trails and the effort level of that run. Personally, I'd pick any 2 of the 3 for the week and add another easy run to the mix. I also found that longer mid-week runs of 10+ miles is better than stacking more onto the weekend long run - your schedule permitting. Again, from my own experience, my PR marathon was on just 3 16 mile LR's but I had two 10+ milers mid-week during the peak training weeks - one easy pace and one at goal marathon pace. I don't know if any changes 6 weeks out will make much of a difference, so let's see if anyone else weighs in on that.
Agree. I have more time on the weekend than weekdays. Hence the back to back long runs. The 10 milers are at 8:30 pace. Weeks days get busy with kids and family. I can easily make the Mon and Wed runs to 8:30-9:00 min pace. It will not have any impact on my current training, if that will help me run a faster marathon.
I kinda figured you'd be running the 10 on trails at about that pace. Not knowing the type of terrain of the trails, but that seems too fast as well. My easy paces on trails is about 1-1:30 slower than on pavement - and these are pretty easy trails. I use a HRM to help guide my easy effort, so I know the effort is consistent between road and trails despite the large difference in pace.
And I'm sure there are plenty of folks who had success with having to load more on weekends. As a side note, I'm pretty impressed that you can maintain that training load at those paces for such a long time. If I tried that my body would break within a couple week for sure!
Your HM time puts you in the 3.15 ballpark but others have suggested it might be a case of doing your normal runs a bit on the fast side. If you went out at 3.15 pace I think you’d fade a lot in the last 10K.
I’d go out at 3.25 pace, compared to your HMP it’ll feel easy for the first 16-18 miles. If it’s still like that as you go through mile 20 take it up a bit. Get the sub 3.25 in the bag then tackle a sub 3.20 or faster next time.
Marathon 3:18 4/7/13. HM 1:30:16 2/4/17 10K 40:31 5/14/17.
Ran a tune up race last week. It was a hilly half and ran without any tapering. Finished the alf in 1:30:49. with a 6:56 pace. This was a 4 min improvement over last year. Felt great throughout the race and Average hr was 139. Plugging in the results at the Jack Daniels calculator puts me at 3:09 marathon.
Wondering if I should still shoot for the 3:15 goal/pacer or stick to 3:25?