Masters Running

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Wednesday July 29 Master Runs and Workbouts (Read 414 times)

    Today was Tempo Intervals day.  I kinda like these.  They're not as challenging as VO2 Max. repeats but they are plenty hard enough to make me work really hard - especially with my H&H and when trying to finish the last mile repeat and then do those short 3K spurts at the end.

     

    30 mins warm up (about 3.2 miles)

    3 x 1 mile @ 15K pace (target 7:51) with 2 mins walk recoveries

    4 x 150m @ 3K (target 6:59) with 150m recoveries

    20 mins cool down (about 2.2 miles)

     

    9 miles altogether.  The Tempo miles came in at 7:49, 7:44, and 7:48 - a little quick, more like 10K pace than 15K but good enough.  I think it's a very good thing that I can run these well in the Summer.

     

    Everything about this workout was easier than Holly's yesterday.  Less miles overall, my Tempo vs. her VO2 Max pace (or better!), longer recoveries periods for mine.  But I suspect she liked her workout less than I liked mine.  Holly, just use the FIRST plans as a guide.  Adjust as you see fit.  I did often.  Especially on these VO2 Max repeat sessions.  I often could not meet their target paces.  But I didn't think it important that I do so.  Complete the whole workout but don't kill yourself.

     

    Bill

    "Some are the strong, silent type. You can't put your finger on exactly what it is they bring to the table until you run without them and then you realize that their steadiness fills a hole that leaks energy in their absence." - Kristin Armstrong

      Teresadfp  I would not count out being eligible for financial aid.  At many schools the aid level goes up quite a bit higher than ever before.  At least apply and find out what they would end up doing.  Also, "no merit aid" is in the eye of the beholder and PR staff.  You would be amazed at how interchangeable the words merit and aid can be when a school really wants somebody.

      Live like you are dying not like you are afraid to die.

      Drunken Irish Soda Bread and Irish Brown Bread this way -->  http://allrecipes.com/cook/4379041/

        Morning, gang!!

         

        Another blessed sleep-in morning, and I still had to struggle to get up at 6:30.  Jesse and I do an agility training session every morning, but the heat and humidity have been dictating  very short sessions this week.  She folds like a cheap lawn chair in this weather ;-). 

         

        Erika - you are braver than me - I don't mess with moose!!

         

        Eliz - gulls are large rats with wings!  I bet the one that stole your sandwich was well versed in the art of lunch-snatching. 

         

        Twocat - watch out for those turkeys - they are just lulling you into a false sense of security, then they are going to attack ;-). 

         

        My lunch bike ride got pre-empted by stooooopid meetings yesterday.  More meetings scheduled over my lunch hour today, but I'm hoping for a break in the action so I can hit the weights this afternoon. 

         

        Good runs all!

        Sue Running is a mental sport...and we're all insane! Anonymous

        Slo


          Sue, A "sleep in" morning sounds so nice.  That'll be next week.

           

          Got in a good bike ride last night......did and easy 15 mile spin and then hammered my way home.

           

          Out for an easy 6 miler this morning.......nice and cool. My back-off week is going well.


          Marathon Maniac #957

            Spareribs – I do see your point.  I chose that particular plan because of the end goal (3:45 marathon) and because I saw how speedy Breger became this spring using it, but I really have no idea where they come up with the paces.  I find that by having those impossible paces dangled in front of me like carrots, I am striving harder, and achieving more, than just left to my own devices.  I already feel some improvement.  But it’s also kind of scary, because I know I’m walking a dangerous line pushing myself to the limit like this.

             

            However, there is a “master plan” that has the workouts listed but not suggested paces, and I could probably use that instead, inserting my own pace goals for each workout.  I’m just not sure what those pace goals should be.  Where is the balance between pushing hard enough to achieve optimal results and pushing too hard?  Where is my VO2 max?  I have only my recent 5-mile race to use as a gauge, but I suppose I could plug that into the McMillan calculator and use the paces suggested there for the different interval distances.

             

            4.2 easy-paced (10:14) miles for me today in 71° and light rain.

             

            ETA - Bill - I suspect you are right about liking your workout today better - yesterday was grueling (although kind of exhilarating, too).  I remember thinking, "this is why I don't like to race - it's HARD!"

            Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

              Thank you to everyone for the kind words and encouragement the last couple of days, it means a lot. I would be lying if I told you that I didn't get choked up reading a couple of your posts.

              Ribs-I bet the Saint wakes up every morning and thinks what a lucky woman I am!

              Mariposai- your kindness touches and amazes me on a regular basis, thank you.

               

              My synthesis presentation went well last night and truly a big weight feels like it's been lifted. No run for me yet, but planning on 6-8 at lunch time today.

               

              Holly -I looked quickly to find a good VO2 max calculator for you. Found a link to an answer to that question by Chris Carmichael, hope it helps.

               

              VO2 Max calc.

              Slo


                Ribs-I bet the Saint wakes up every morning and thinks what a lucky woman I am!

                 Cranieum......Why would she think you are a lucky woman ?   

                 

                While you're out on your run......take in a deep deep breath and let it out.......a big sigh of relief !

                  My running plan is really very simple, compared to some of you. I admire your perseverence - especially running such difficult workouts in warm weather.

                   

                  I have a general goal for mpw and long run length as I ramp up for a spring or fall marathon, and don't worry too much about speed.  If I feel like running fast, I do.  Mostly I don't.  I try to do one or two progressive or fast finish long runs.   I try even harder not to get injured.  It seems to be working.  Since our goal this fall is to run two marathons in 15 days, I've got no particular time goals anyway.  I just want to start and finish both of 'em.

                   

                  7 miles this morning on tired legs.  75° and very humid at 4:30 AM.  That just doesn't seem right.  I was very slow and still struggling.

                   

                  aka Mrs. WillRunForBeer, MD, USA

                  Marathoning, the triumph of desire over reason


                  Marathon Maniac #957

                    Cranium - thanks - I've saved that to try sometime soon.

                    Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

                      Congratulations on the synthesis completion Craneium and hang in there. SLO! You made me spit coffee at my computer....laughing hard still.


                      Teresa---Twocat is right in that there are many more options especially at a place like Amherst that raises a LOT of money for scholarship aid. There are also many merit within need programs at colleges like Amherst. They will tell you that merit is determined at the point of admission and yet there are a whole variety of alternatives. My cousin was admitted there last year and ended up qualifying for a merit (within need) package. She ended up going to Reed instead because she loves Oregon, but press hard if that's where your son wants to be and they want him.  I think Coach Nedeau is fantastic and his wife is quite the speedster too by the way (sub 5:00 miles easily).


                      Tempo day for me too---Iron J and I hit the roads at 6 am---25 minutes at easy pace and then 2x 20 @7:20 pace with 5 minutes between each tempo segment and the last bit easy back to my house. Sweat city again today--all my sneakers are soaked and I gross my kiddo out when I come in and chase him for a hug. He yells "Mom (stretched out to sound like 5 syllables)...SICK!" Ha!


                      Holly, I am not a fan at all of the McMillan calculator approach for myself and try and gauge how I am recovering as a guide. I did some "test" workouts early on in this training cycle for just that reason. If my quads were still stinging and I was too pooped on a long run three days after the repeats, Coach slowed me down. Rather than blast the repeat at top speed, she'll suggest I add more repeats and shorten the recovery time as I get fitter, so I feel tested but not trashed. Just watch out for the red line. I think we are all excited for you and want you to reach the goals you have set for yourself. 


                      Gotta scoot

                      Teresadfp


                      One day at a time

                        CNY and Twocat, thanks so much for the encouragement about Amherst!!  I was about ready to tell DS not to bother applying there!

                         

                        CNY, I REALLY liked Ned.  One thing he told DS is that if he has a runner set a PR in a race one week, he does NOT want him/her trying to set another PR the next week.  He wants them to hold the pace and just try to match that time.  Otherwise, the kid gets too excited before the next race and trains too hard, and ends up not doing as well, and then gets discouraged!  Wow, that describes DS to a tee!  He also said he concentrates his training on the third quarter of a race, because that's when runners tend to let up and not do as well.  Again, that is where DS has consistently struggled and gets discouraged.  The third thing he said is that he doesn't let his runners go out too hard in early-season races, which was a new concept for my son.  All this great advice will help him this year, I'm sure.

                         

                        The coach definitely said they would like DS to run there, so we'll see what happens.  I won't get my son's hopes up, but we'll keep going and have him make an overnight trip in the fall.  He also filled out a questionnaire for Washington University in St. Louis, and that coach has been trying to get hold of him (our phone is out of order, blechh).

                         

                        My running partner and I did 4 hot, humid miles this morning, but I was happy that I felt pretty good the entire way.  Three days until the Beach to Beacon 10K!  I'm very excited about it.


                        Prince of Fatness

                          However, there is a “master plan” that has the workouts listed but not suggested paces, and I could probably use that instead, inserting my own pace goals for each workout.  I’m just not sure what those pace goals should be.  Where is the balance between pushing hard enough to achieve optimal results and pushing too hard?  Where is my VO2 max?  I have only my recent 5-mile race to use as a gauge, but I suppose I could plug that into the McMillan calculator and use the paces suggested there for the different interval distances.

                           

                          Holly, this is the problem I have with plans, paces, numbers.  Every day is different.  Maybe you didn't sleep well.  Maybe the weather is hot.  Maybe you're just distracted and not focused on the workout.  These variables are why fixed numbers don't work for me.  Instead I just try to focus on effort.

                           

                          For example, today was a wave run for me (I like this workout by the way).  This was my second time doing this workout, and my splits were a little slower this time.  The difference was that today it was very humid, as I was drenched with sweat just from my warm up.  Point is that the effort was there, and that was what was important.  So I didn't worry about it.

                          Not at it at all. 

                            Haven't run yet, but I did a second run last night with D.--one of those where I announce the game to him while we go.  Jim Ed's number retired, sweet.  Otherwise, am. not. panicking.

                             

                            Steve P, very funny.  Read the last post in yesterday's daily for a hoot, folks.

                             

                            Teresa, great news.  I hope your son will get to go to Amherst--and Karin can keep an eye on him via the running community there.  [Yup, it's "Ammurst," and down the road, Holyoke is a 2 syllable word: "Hoyoke"]

                             

                            Sue, I think I attended a surfeit of meetings in my lifetime.  I now try to avoid them as often as possible!

                             

                            Craneium, PSHEW!  Congrats, and have a great run later! 

                             

                            grins,

                            A

                            Masters 2000 miles

                              Not hot, but very muggy this morning just after the rain quit, and I was determined to run the loop of the OU campus that I had not done yet this year. It's pretty hilly and I felt a bonk coming on before I'd gone a mile -- even stopped to walk a few steps -- but then pushed on and things got easier once I found my wind. Ran the last 4 (of 5) miles at about my usual 9:45 or better, but only an overall 9:52 average due to the slow first mile.

                               

                              As I ran past Meadowbrook Hall, I saw that they were unloading cars for this weekend's Concours d'Elegance classic car event. They had some parked under a tent, so I ran a couple of loops through there to take a passing look at some 30s-era Packards, Deusenbergs, and others.

                               

                              Hope the rest of you have cooler, drier runs today!

                              Doug, runnin' cycling in Rochester, MI

                              "Think blue, count two, and look for a red shoe"


                              King of PhotoShop

                                Thanks Craneium, and well done on the presentation.  Good for you.

                                 

                                Great comments by MrPhinnj, Breger and CNY in support of Holly's plan.  I sure do know where you are coming from Holly, so let's try some practical things.  First, hang on to the master plan so you have some guidelines, but let's not do workouts that you know in your heart will be unproductive.  You knew going into this one that it didn't seem right and again, congrats for pushing through it.  There is the "guts benefit" from doing that.

                                 

                                But as to practical, why not figure out what your VO2 max is without using a calculator?  On a day when you feel refreshed, such as after an off-day, go down to the track, warm up, include some pickups, then run your fastest two miles as a time trial.  Your time will be approximately your VO2 max pace.

                                 

                                Breger had some other good advice for you.  Consider that in almost all training programs, what the coach or plan is trying to do is simply give you high HR work for an extended period of time.  But when you do mile repeats, you either want to do them at a bit slower pace, OR you will want full recovery after each.  Your workout gave you neither.  I think by now in your running you have developed some good judgment on what is best for you and you can make your own decisions.

                                 

                                Now a comment about Breger's plan.  Notice that Tinman is giving him multiple stressors at different paces, to excite his fast twitch muscle fibers, while also always giving him a stamina workout.  Go to this link and see if you don't find it enlightening:

                                 

                                http://http://www.coachr.org/fiber.htm

                                 

                                You are completely free to adapt your workouts to do the same.  Let's say that instead of your workout yesterday, you did your mile repeats at 7:45 pace, same recovery, and then afterwards you did 4 x 60 seconds or so, at your VO2 max, with equivalent recovery time.  You would have a heck of a workout.   Spareribs

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