Masters Running

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Is 3 weeks after a hard-run marathon too soon to try for a HM PR? (Read 520 times)


Marathon Maniac #957

    Just wondering.  If I make it through this training cycle uninjured, I hope to run Air Force Marathon (Sept. 18) as my “best-effort” marathon of the year.  I am also planning on running the Flying Monkey Marathon, but that’s not until November 21.  In between those races, I’m considering signing up for a HM three after the AFM, on October 8.  The HM is close to home, and the race where I set my previous HM PR.

     

    But I remember two weeks after another marathon (can’t remember which one) thinking as I did my 12-14-mile LR that there was no way I could be racing that distance that day.  Would I be ready with three weeks to recover?  What do you guys think?  I don’t want to run it if I don’t think I have a good race in me.  If I just want to run a nice LR on the river trail, I don’t need to spend $50-60 to do it.

     

    The other option is a trail 50K in Cincinnati five weeks after the AF marathon (Oct. 24), which would be plenty of time to recover and there would be no speed goal for that one anyway.

     

    Opinions?

     

    Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

    Slo


      Holly....I'm certainly no expert but here's my gut take on it.

       

      If you said 4 weeks I say absolutely....3 weeks....I think you have a damn good shot. Your base is deep. I think you'd recovery quite quickly. I also believe your nutrition and sleep is going to have a big impact.

       

      I've read somewhere that your peak fitness level occurs somewhere 2 - 3 weeks after your marathon...which makes sense since the performance I do today was from training I did 3 weeks ago.

       

      I've contemplated doing a half 3 - 4 weeks after a marathon thinking this would give me my best PR shot.

        I think you'll be primed for a good one 3 weeks after a full, Holly.

         

        Of course if you come out of the AF marathon injured for whatever reason, then all bets are off.  But given a normal recovery after a full, you'll be fine.

         

        Bill

        "Some are the strong, silent type. You can't put your finger on exactly what it is they bring to the table until you run without them and then you realize that their steadiness fills a hole that leaks energy in their absence." - Kristin Armstrong

        evanflein


          You'll be fine. Three weeks is the time between your last long run and the full anyway. Last year, I ran a hard ultra and almost PR'd in a marathon three weeks later. As others have said, you've got a strong base and I've got no doubt that you could do it.

           

          The key will be your recovery: take it very seriously the week after the marathon!

          jtv


            Holly,

             

            Only you can answer this question, because only you know how you recover from a marathon.   Since the general rule is 3-4 weeks recovery from a marathon, you may or may not be fully recovered from AF.   Unfortunately, you probably won't know until the last few days leading up to the 1/2, or possibly not until you start the 1/2.  You state that you didn't feel recovered at all 2 weeks after 1 previous marathon, but how did you feel after the others?

             

            Since you are a higher mileage runner, and have run ultras, I would think you would recover quicker, and as a Marathon Maniac, are used to racing back to back.  I have felt fine a few days after a marathon, and others it has taken a few weeks to get my legs back.  It all depends.

             

            What is more important, AF or the 1/2? 

             

            I generally look to do a fast 1/2 3-4 weeks before a marathon, not after (but have PR'ed in several races in the 2 week period both before and after marathons), but that is just me.  Everyone is different.  In my younger days, I probably wouldn't think twice about it.  But now (especially since I have been oft-injured), I would only "race" one or the other. 


            MM#209 / JapanJoyful#803

              dear MM#957 -

               

              09/18 Holly - Air Force Marathon

              10/08 Holly - Half Mary

              10/24 Holly - Cincinnati 50K

              11/21 Holly - Flying Mondkey Marathon

              11/28 Holly - Seattle Marathon

               

              from MM#209 (founder of 5mi/wk club)

               

              ps - with regard to recovery, another important key will be your tapering too.

              Please  take it very seriously after the marathon, . . . after the half marthon,

              . . . after the 50K, . . .  and after the marathon! 

              "Enjoy yourself. Your younger days never come again." 100yo T. Igarashi to me in geta at top of Mt. Fuji (8/2/87)


              Prince of Fatness

                Three weeks would be right on the border line for me.  If it was a 5K or 10K I would not even hesitate, but racing a half (I say racing because you say you want to run a good time) involves quite a bit of effort.  Can you wait until the last minute to register for the half?

                 

                You've run enough marathons to know generally how you recover.  That should give you a percentage chance of success to work with.  If you think that the odds are there for you, go for it.

                 

                Not at it at all. 


                Marathon Maniac #957

                  dear MM#957 -

                   

                  09/18 Holly - Air Force Marathon

                  10/08 Holly - Half Mary

                  10/24 Holly - Cincinnati 50K

                  11/21 Holly - Flying Mondkey Marathon

                  11/28 Holly - Seattle Marathon

                   

                  from MM#209 (founder of 5mi/wk club)

                   

                   

                   

                  You just HAD to go and plant that idea, didn't you?     Okay, Seattle won't be possible, but maybe I can swing BOTH the 50k and the HM....

                  Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

                    My first thought was that I should read this but not respond as my experience is much less than that of many others.  However, lack of knowledge or experience has never kept me from shooting my mouth off.

                     

                    The closest I can come to this situation is after my only marathon where I didn't try for anything other than finishing.  The first week after, I took it fairly easy, only 15 miles.  The second week, I resumed my normal schedule which include my long run of 12 miles at a decent pace for me.  Four weeks after my marathon, I did the Crim (10 miles with hills).  I had what was, and still is, my best Crim by several minutes.

                     

                    Based on that, I figured that a young, tough, determined, experienced runner like holly with a fantastic base should be able to attempt a PR half three weeks after a hard marathon.  The mixed responses of the more experienced runners, however, leads me to suspect that there is a significant difference between 3 and 4 weeks after a marathon and it depends on the individual like so many other things.

                     

                    So, I guess I'll sum it up by saying that you've got to decide what's best for you without really knowing what that is.  Whatever you decide, I'll cheer you on.

                     

                    Good luck

                    Tom S

                      Holly,

                       

                      Here are the relevant things I've heard.  Don't race for the mumber of days corresponding to the number of miles you raced (that would be 3.5 weeks for you in this case).  Recovery takes longer if you bonk. 

                       

                      You know you're itching to do it, so go ahead.  Good luck.


                      MM#209 / JapanJoyful#803

                        You just HAD to go and plant that idea, didn't you?     Okay, Seattle won't be possible, but maybe I can swing BOTH the 50k and the HM....

                        Thanks Holly.  I just miss not getting back here for the RnR. 

                        Maybe you can come out again some time. 

                        .

                        Here’s two races that would I know you would like if it ever works out:

                        .

                        1.  White River 50 mile Endurance Run (up and down two mountains with the event photog positioned near the top of the first on a downhill traverse (so everyone looks like they're running fast) with Mt. Rainier in the background and

                        .

                        2.  the Equinox Marathon that makes you think it is just a regular marathon for about seven miles, then all-of-a-sudden a couple of miles up to the the yellow-golden birch trees along the Ester Dome Ridge roller-coaster of up-and-downs to the turn-around.  There’s an uneasy silence in the crisp air as it’s just before the whole area freezing up tight as a drum for the next six months. 

                        .

                        3.  There’s one more but I don’t think you like oysters. (i'll check as see if they can have a cooked division))

                        .

                        While two mary/ultras-a-year are pretty much recognized as the limit for “A”-racing, a once-every-month-or-two half, mary, or ultra can get the muscles and mind comfortable with (1) running non stop in in race conditions and atmosphere and (2) an acceptable nutritional/unnutritional regime that will let you focus on racing when that’s what you want to do. 

                        .

                        Divechief does it to perfection.  Lots of even-paced “ B” marathons but he’s likely to shift into high gear an hour or so faster if he has time for the speed training, etc. that gets him into the “A” mode. 

                        .

                        ps - unless it’s an A race and you’re willing to risk getting injured and out-of-commission for a year or more, just remember to DNF at the first sign of any nagging/niggling pain.  Dave's a master at this too and I have to be so careful I've bailed as late as mile 23 in an early marathon.

                        .

                        Good luck

                        "Enjoy yourself. Your younger days never come again." 100yo T. Igarashi to me in geta at top of Mt. Fuji (8/2/87)


                        Maniac 505

                          Holly, 

                           

                          no advice from me,  I have run  races that close together,  I have never "raced" events that close together.

                           

                          On a side note, do you have the flying monkey registration on your calendar?  last year as I recall it filled in something like 9 hours.

                           

                          Monkey registration opens  August 1, 8:00 AM (probably central time)


                          Marathon Maniac #957

                            Divechief - yes, I have my hotel reservations and the registration deadline calendared.    

                             

                            You running it this year?

                            Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."