RunningAHEAD - Topic: Intervals, anaerobic work, the "data" and other observations

rbbmoose

posted: 1/22/2009 at 1:46 PM
modified: 1/22/2009 at 2:08 PM

My final 2 cents is that if you are doing 20 mile long runs at MP then your MP is probably too slow.... Ray NOTE: Although Tramps and I posted at the same time, I was holding my finger on my nose, so under the "Nose Knows" rule, I am right.

Tramps

posted: 1/22/2009 at 1:48 PM
modified: 1/22/2009 at 1:50 PM

Thanks for the clarification. 16-18 mile MP run is still a long way. As Ray notes, I imagine injury risk is high and I've always heard it probably outweighs the benefit. Still, I've always been tempted to try this, as much for the confidence boost as anything. I've done it with a local 20-mile race in the Fall which I've run hard but not all-out. However, I've learned that the pace I can maintain for 20 miles running "comfortably hard" is usually faster than what I can muster for the full marathon. More evidence of the importance of that last 10K. ETA: Funny that Ray and I posted at the same time, contradicting each other!

Be safe. Be kind.

CNYrunner

posted: 1/22/2009 at 3:16 PM

Good points all! You are right Ray and in fact...Coach had this to say to me in her weekly e-mail: "When we get you through this rehab phase and away from injury, let's focus on moving the needle to a new MP pace. Some of this will be a mental issue for you K, but we're going to focus on getting you to hold 7:15 marathon pace. We won't shoot for that in your first marathon after this lay-off. We'll work on lowering your race pace in the 5k --half-marathon band first and then revisit the marathon training at our next face to face time." Anyway......I am excited about what might be ahead. My true goal is to run for the rest of my life or close to that, but the seduction of closing the gap between my master's marathon PR and my all time PR of 3:04 is pretty intense. Tramps, I love being a student of the sport. Good Luck

jdmom3

posted: 1/22/2009 at 4:00 PM

Karin, just popping in to wish you well in your quest. I hope you can get that marathon PR! I actually ran my marathon PR at 41. I may never get back there as I'm now 45, but I'd love to run another sub-3:00 marathon. Just have to get healthy again and hope that I have a couple more years of decent times in me. Anyway, best wishes for speedy recovery and return to racing form. Meg

Once a runner . . .

CNYrunner

posted: 1/22/2009 at 4:10 PM

Hi Meg, Thanks for popping in with your message. I hope you get your goal as well. I know we all have to pay attention to age and other life factors and yet I am not giving up easily! I think you'll snare that goal. You are a smart and gifted runner. My all time PR was set more than 20 years ago when I lived and breathed running and was actually focusing on the 10,000 meters. I didn't think of marathons in the same way then. I then got burned out from intense training and spent many years just running and racing every now and then. This last six year period has marked a return to an earlier focus. I too hope the return from injury for both of us holds and carries us into the next phase. Who knows? I run on a masters club team and the speediest of the group is 47 and ran a 3:25 in her 30s and a 2:58 last month. She has natural speed like yours, but still----kids, life, gravity, perimenopause---nothing seems to stop her. I think you have at least a coupe more years in there! Karin

Spareribs

King of PhotoShop

posted: 1/22/2009 at 4:16 PM

Karin and Meg, my PR's were at age 38. And remember that Carlos Lopes won the Olympic Marathon at 36. Karin, you know I have confidence in you at a faster overall pace for the M and HM distances, as we have discussed, so your coach is by no means out of your reasonable range. Spareribs

WillRunForBeer

posted: 1/23/2009 at 6:26 AM

No time to read the whole thread right now, but I did read the original post. While I have read Pfitzinger, I am not sure that qualifies me a cerebral Smile

. I am trying to understand the reasoning behind the workouts though. One thing is that he has VO2 max sessions (i.e., 5K paced interval workouts) as early as 12 weeks before the goal race -- he has one of these at 12 weeks, one at 9, then every week starting at 7 before taper. Maybe the early workouts are so much of a shock to the runner when he piles them on.

Lou, (aka Mr. predawnrunner), MD, USA | Lou's Brews | lking@pobox.com

tagrunner

Tag

posted: 1/23/2009 at 7:30 AM

SR, if I lived near you I'd ask you to be my coach. Smile

Tag FB

Holly S.

Marathon Maniac #957

posted: 1/23/2009 at 9:28 AM
modified: 1/23/2009 at 9:37 AM

I'm not sure how much of this thread applies to runners like myself who are substantially slower than most posting on it, but this from rbbmoose is a great takeaway for me...

Quote from rbbmoose on 1/16/2009 at 2:58 PM:

Longish tempo runs (10-14 miles) @MP is one of the two hard workouts I do each week (the other is 20 mile LR). The rest of the days I run as slow as I can... Every few weeks I run faster long run... And as Meg mentions, I always try to finish LRs at MP.

Plus CNYrunner's advice - and I have saved your list of different types of runs in another folder. When the weather warms up, I would love to try your Dynamic runs - I admit, mostly because they sound like so much fun....

Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

jdmom3

posted: 1/23/2009 at 12:38 PM

Karin, thanks for the encouraging words. I did not get into running until my mid-20s and then only for a couple of years. I ran my first marathon in 1989 (2:52) and wish I had known how close I was to qualifying to the OTs because I wound up suffering from post-marathon malaise and dropping serious running until I graduated from law school and got a job. I ran off and on in my early 30s, concentrating on 5 and 10Ks, and then started having kids. Through that period, I ran but only recreationally. I finally got back into it right around the time I turned 40 and in the following two years ran a 2:58, 2:51, and 2:50 before winding up with a stress fracture and various other injuries that have kept me on the DL until recently. My knee is still probably only 80% and I feel like I've probably got another couple of months of rehab with it before I can really consider a race. I hope you continue to heal up and get back into racing shape quickly. It will be fun to see how it all turns out.

Once a runner . . .

nonoruns

Renee the dog

posted: 1/24/2009 at 4:41 PM

jdmom3, it's going to turn out all right. We'll both qualify for Boston at the Shamrock in 2010. Or have a hell of a good time trying! Wink

GOALS 2012: UNDECIDED

GOALS 2011: LIVE!!!

Masters Running

Intervals, anaerobic work, the "data" and other observations (Read 941 times)